38 special vs. 44 special

[MCgunner]

.38s are superior for concealment. It'll be there when I need it. And, it's plenty. Also, there is a superior variety of loads and bullet types and weights available in .38 special.

If I'm going to get a gun as bulky as a 5 shot .44, I'll carry my SP101 with 140 grain full house JHPs and beat the .44 hands down, no questions. In fact, the SP101 has a slimmer cylinder, though it weighs a bit more than some .44s like the bull dog. It's only 27 ounces, though.

 

[Gator]

Does anybody else remember reading that?

Maybe not the quote you were thinking of, but pertinent. The Col was talking about the 696.

"We are not generally impressed by innovative handgun designs, but Smith & Wesson has come up now with a fairly compact 5-shot wheel-gun in caliber 44 Special. Toward the beginning of the handgun revolution, in which we bore a hand, we professed that the optimum personal defensive sidearm was a major caliber self-loading pistol. The second choice was a major caliber revolver; the third a minor caliber self-loader, and in last place the minor caliber revolver. This new Smith will fit nicely into certain marketing niches, if we bear in mind that one need not use only factory ammunition in 44 Special. This cartridge can be loaded up, without overstressing it, to very respectable stopping levels. A 240-grain Keith-form lead bullet at about 900f/s is both controllable and decisive. This can be put down as a Good Thing."

 

[dmxx9900]

I am satisfied with my .38 special but a .44 special is probably a better defense round but its more expensive and harder to find locally then .38 special.

 

[Murdock]

Yup, the Colonel said that...

But it seems to me that I remember Jeff Cooper once writing that he recommended .44 revolvers for the average LEO, and the .45 auto only for specially trained personnel.

That floored me, as I thought that the 1911 was everything to the Colonel. Does anybody else remember reading that?

Oh boy! You've got to be as old as I am, Dismantler! Sorry, TimboKahn, but I'm backing Dismantler up on this, though I can't locate the reference with what I have on hand. (We old guys have got to stick together).

The Colonel did indeed write that about the .44 Special. I'm pretty sure it was in his Guns & Ammo column in the late 1970s or early 1980s. The context, as I recall, was in a discussion about police wanting greater power in their service weapons than the .38 Special offered, who therefore went to the .357. When they did so they developed fears about over-penetration, and and had difficulty with controllability. This was especially true in .38-framed DAs like the S&W M13/19/66, which were mainstays before the universal transition to the 9mm DA automatic began in the 1980s. Before that transition, most police departments remained wedded to the concept of the DA revolver. His perception was that departments were not willing to adequately train their police in the service automatic, so a more powerful DA revolver made more sense for their officers.

Cooper offered in that context that he did not understand why the answer for those police departments unhappy with the .38 Special, but who wanted to maintain the DA revolver and its perceived simplicity of operation, was not the DA revolver in .44 Special. His argument was that the .44 Special was more powerful than the .38, but more controllable than the .357, and was without the over-penetration issue.

Cooper was always an advocate of big bullets with good shape at controllable velocities. Cooper wrote more than once about the efficacy of good DA revolvers, and the only things he apparently had against them were that they were about 25-30% harder to shoot well than a good SA automatic (his figures), bulkier for the power they provided, and took much more practice to learn to shoot well. He never criticized their combat effectiveness in the hands of a skilled operator.

I was a young and impressionable military officer then, and was trying to develop a meaningful level of skill with a sidearm. I paid very close attention to what the big guys were writing then. Cooper, Keith, Askins and Skelton all liked big bullets, and I came to have faith in that. Anyway, that's why I remember the reference.

 

[Erik]

Despite what I'm certain is relative babe status, I have read that quote myself somewhere, and heard something remarkably similar to your recollection before.

 

[Dismantler]

Well, I DO have gray hair!

Thanks for the input on that subject from all of you. As I said, the reason that I remember it is because it floored me to see the Colonel recommend a revolver.

If I remember it correctly, it was on his page in the back of Guns and Ammo magazine. (Coopers Corner?) I used to read it on the news stand, and then put the magazine back. Say...is that theft of intellectual property?

 

[Bullet Bob]

I like them both, but for general fun shooting, I like the .38 the best. I only have one .44 Special:



I have few .44 magnums which of course fire the Special, but the above is the only "Special Only" gun I have.

Without going and looking, I'm not exactly sure how many .38's I have. Here's a couple:









And my favorite, the S&W K38 Target Masterpiece. I have at least three, here's one from 1952:

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I am ignoring a lot of factors with this answer, opting instead to just answer the question at it's face value.

Feel free to elaborate if you like, I was just trying to keep the question somewhat vague for the sake of everyone drawing their own conclusions while still keeping on the subject of which would be better for combat, thus far it seems to have worked rather well.

On another note however a couple of the posts on here not only have me considering picking up a da 44 special but picking up a sa and all the stuff to load it as well.

 

[Snapping Twig]

I have all three and I reload for them. That said, I prefer the .44spl by a large margin over the 38spl. Bigger holes are always more effective and out of a 3" 629, you have a versatile delivery system that's easily controlled.

I load a 250g Keith (Lyman #429421) over 7g W231 for @ 900fps with accuracy and impact. I load these round in magnum brass to avoid carbon build-up in the cylinder and the simple fact that I don't like to reset my dies.

I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with this round.

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

I like .38 because I can fire it faster.

 

[Timthinker]

If memory serves me correctly, Cooper also thought the .41 Magnum, using "special" loads, was an outstanding DA revolver for police usage. This is something the "mature" THR members may recall.

Both the .38 and .44 are very accurate target cartridges in my experience. I would prefer the .44 Special because I believe the heavier frames upon which it is built provides for faster followup shots over lighter frame .38 Specials using "hotter" loads. To be honest, a small .38 is easier to conceal.


Timthinker

 

[TimboKhan]

I didn't mean to imply that Cooper didn't like revolvers, I just don't think the part about the 1911 requiring special training sounds right, hence my comment about context.

Cooper evidently was a big fan of revolvers, which makes sense to me because how can't one be? In one of the eulogys written about him in G&A after he died, someone told a story about how he had an accidental discharge with one, which ended up with him shooting a hole through the gas meter in his yard. Apparently, the guy took it and had it gold plated and presented it to Cooper as a trophy...

 

[Bear41mag]

I love the 44 special and my opinion is in my signature. When it comes to a defense round its hard to beat a Keith Bullet over 7.5 gr of Unique at 900 FPS

Twin Smith 696's



Smith Model 24

 

[PigPen]

Well, there are advantages and disadvantages to both but in the end I would opt for the 1911.

The 38 has the advantage of carrying easier. It is smaller/lighter. None are any good if you don't have them with you.

The 44 is more powerful. Sometimes this is an advantage and sometimes a disadvantage due to over penatration.....and need I say weight/ergonomics.

The 1911 is large and heavy but it carries 8 plus 1 round (more than either of the other two). In dire circumstances more is better. It does not carry a reputation of over penetration but does for one shot stops.

You have named my three favorite rounds. I like them all. Different rounds for different situations and at different times. But wherever you are.......a .45 will help you make it through the night!


PigPen

 

[Bearhands]

I agree... all are good choices, but when you run low/out of ammo 38's will always be the easiest to find @ the corner gunshop.

 

[mavracer]

uh kinda like both just like my 38+p in magnum form

 

[Srigs]

357 is much better combo IMHO for a wheel gun.

 

[Feanaro]

I can't see picking .38 Special for a "combat" revolver. That suggests, to me, that this isn't a concealed carry piece but an offensive handgun or backup to a rifle/shotgun. In which case I don't want a revolver. But let's say I did.

If so, concealment is no longer a real factor. That means a decent sized handgun. You need something that can stand up to abuse and makes a decent club. This makes me think of an N-frame in .44. It packs a punch and overpenetration isn't a concern (I think it's overly emphasized to begin with but hey, what do I know?). Plus, it's easier to jiggle .44 rounds into a cylinder than it is to get those hard .38s in place.

 

[McCall911]

357 is much better combo IMHO for a wheel gun.

Yessir, I agree but that would've made the choice way too easy for us.

It's a good poll, though.

 

[Colt46]

44 Special is for connesiours only

Those that own them tend to be a little snobbish. Ammo is too expensive if you go factory. Elmer Keith did all his work up that proved the feasability of the .44 Magnum with the Special. A very underappreciated cartridge.

For self defense I'd rather have the bigger bullet of the .44

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Yessir, I agree but that would've made the choice way too easy for us.

It's a good poll, though.

I almost added .357 as an option but realized immediately realized how that would have gone so I just added the 1911 as a joke knowing someone would have asked where the option was anyway

 

[Dismantler]

If I had to choose one gun and one load to go into trouble with it would be my Model 10 with +p's in it. It fits my hand, I can hit with it, and the round is really the hottest that I can handle accurately. I do not have any forty caliber guns, and I do not like the recoil and blast of a .357 magnum. Give me a K-Frame loaded with +p's and I am a happy sixgunner!

 

[jkingrph]

I do not have a 44 special, but have several 38's. 38 should be much better as a small concealable carry gun. As a "man stopper" or hunting round the 44 should be the better.

I do load my 44 mag to 44 special levels for most of my shooting, primarily for lower recoil levels.

 

[Wildfire]

Self defence or Combat ?

Hey there :
You question was about a "combat gun" If you meant self defence , Then the .44 would do better. But If you really meant Combat then I may have to say the .38. Faster recovery and maybe more accurate. In the right wheel gun. One made for combat.
A wheel gun would not be my way for any combat ordeal. The .45 acp in a 1911 would be.
IMO there is a big difference between Combat and self defence.

 

[Brian Williams]

Fully loaded 38s in a good solid gun is my choice, a smaller gun makes for an easier carry. A S&W model round butt 10-5 with a 3" intermediate barrel would be a great gun with heavy loaded 38s, it is fairly lightweight and easy on the hip.