.380 for compacts?

[TheRealJQP]

Can someone explain to me why .380 is so much more popular for compact pistols than 9mm is? Is 9mm just too hot or have too much kick or what?

Just wondering. I just became aware of the Taurus Curve (I know, I don't pay close attention to new products), and I thought "hmm," then saw it was .380 and thought "meh."

 

[GEM]

While 9mm is getting small, 380s are even smaller. As far as kick, that depends a bit on the gun. The LCP is a palm stinger while the G42 is mild.

A G42 is pocketable, a 43 is a touch more trouble. But Shields seem to be easy to pocket.

 

[Candyman87]

Generally has to do with the type of action... 9mm and larger generally relies on recoil operation where .380 and smaller can be used in direct blowback designs.

Direct blowback has less moving parts and is mechanically simpler, therefore is more appropriate for small pocket-type pistols. 9mm, being a more powerful cartridge would require a stronger recoil spring that would make racking the slide quite difficult.

 

[TheRealJQP]

Candyman: okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[bikerdoc]

Most times I carry full size 45, 357, and 9
The small 380 with good SD ammo has its place for certain situations.

 

[TheRealJQP]

Yeah I'm pretty restrictive about calibers. I need a really good reason to add one to my list:

.22lr
5.56/.223
.300 BLK (added for SBR/Pistol role)
.308 or 30-06 (haven't made final decision yet, leaning .308)
9mm
.357

 

[topazguy]

What a kick!

I bought a M&P Bodyguard (.380) for the wife and she hates that it kicks like a mule. I find it fun to shoot but it does pack a wallup.

 

[kokapelli]

Generally has to do with the type of action... 9mm and larger generally relies on recoil operation where .380 and smaller can be used in direct blowback designs.

Direct blowback has less moving parts and is mechanically simpler, therefore is more appropriate for small pocket-type pistols. 9mm, being a more powerful cartridge would require a stronger recoil spring that would make racking the slide quite difficult.

Actually most of the micro 380 pistols are not blowback they are locked breech just like 9mm and up.

Because of my 83 year old joints I pretty much have gone over to 380 for the much softer recoil in micro sized pistols. I just sold my excellent PM9 because shooting it has become just too painful.

 

[MedWheeler]

Try to make a plastic-framed (lightweight) pistol in 9mm smaller than the Diamondback DB9 and not enough people will want to shoot it..

Mt PF9, which is slightly bigger (and holds an additional round) is as small as I'd want to go in the caliber.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I was surprised by how much difference the type of action makes in recoil.
My HSc, straight blowback, has recoil that really gets your attention, whereas my sig 238 is probably the softest shooter i have. The sig also gives up about 120FPS to the mauser too, though.

I think, so long as you can keep your head together and get shots on target, a 380 should do just fine. YMMV.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I have a PF-9 its snappy with +P be on snappy It smarts I prefer to carry my 380 KelTec

 

[Tallball]

I don't believe it's possible to make a 9mm as small as the tiny Keltecs and Ruger LCP's and the like. I can hide mine in my shirt pocket.

 

[Janos Dracwlya]

For me, a .380 is just easier to pocket-carry than a 9mm. I've got a Taurus TCP and a Kahr CW9. I bought the Kahr as a "step up," but largely stopped carrying it after a couple of months as it is just too big for the intended use.

As for recoil, *to me*, neither is painful to shoot, though the Kahr is a bit more snappy. The day I bought the TCP, though, I took it straight to the range, cleaned it and proceeded to fire around 250 rounds through it. I had no pain in my hands from it, which surprised me. My wife has an NAA Guardian .380, and, while it is a beautiful gun - all stainless, you know - it will pound the daylights out of my hands. I can't shoot more than about 25 rounds through it without pain.

 

[GDownRange]

I was surprised by how much difference the type of action makes in recoil.
My HSc, straight blowback, has recoil that really gets your attention, whereas my sig 238 is probably the softest shooter i have. The sig also gives up about 120FPS to the mauser too, though.

I think, so long as you can keep your head together and get shots on target, a 380 should do just fine. YMMV.

In my experience the difference in muzzle flip between straight blow back and locked breech is tremendous. My Kahr P380 is incredibly soft shooting and easy to get back on target for follow up shots.

 

[LiveLife]

The day I bought the TCP, though, I took it straight to the range, cleaned it and proceeded to fire around 250 rounds through it. I had no pain in my hands from it, which surprised me. My wife has an NAA Guardian .380, and, while it is a beautiful gun - all stainless, you know - it will pound the daylights out of my hands. I can't shoot more than about 25 rounds through it without pain.

+1. Wife wanted a "pocket pistol" when Glock 27 was not small enough. After much consideration, we decided on the TCP 738 due to smoothest DAO trigger as if you cannot hit the target, it doesn't matter what caliber or capacity it has.

The TCP 738 is very pocketable and wife uses a pocket holster. TCP 738 has dual recoil springs which tames the recoil and last round slide lock (yes, not all 380 pockets pistols have slide lock!) which I consider essential for mag change as we train to shoot multiple targets.

The TCP is made in USA and as to durability, here's 10,000+ round report of range rental TCP 738 without breakage - http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/05/jeremy-s/gun-review-taurus-738-tcp/

 

[djont57]

MY TCP 738 with a Desantis pocket holster is my most comfortable carry. Accurate & reliable as well..

 

[MainiacBob]

I traded a Kahr CM-9 for a S&W 380 Bodyguard as I found the Kahr had a lttle too much kick for me. The BG is much easier for me to handle, has a laser and is easier to conceal IWB and in the pocket.

 

[mgmorden]

Generally has to do with the type of action... 9mm and larger generally relies on recoil operation where .380 and smaller can be used in direct blowback designs.

Direct blowback has less moving parts and is mechanically simpler, therefore is more appropriate for small pocket-type pistols. 9mm, being a more powerful cartridge would require a stronger recoil spring that would make racking the slide quite difficult.

Blowback .380's are pretty close to full-sized designs in size.

The tiny pocket .380's are all locked breech. It's just that with their pressure being that much lower than 9mm, in a .380 with a locked breech you can make them EVEN SMALLER than a 9mm.

If you made a 9mm with the same outer dimensions as an LCP for example it'd shoot itself apart in short order (maybe the first round).

Bottom line - given the same action type, you have to make a given gun beefier/bigger to handle 9mm vs .380.

 

[kokapelli]

Blowback .380's are pretty close to full-sized designs in size.

The tiny pocket .380's are all locked breech.

Not all micro 380 pistols are locked breech.
A few of examples would be the Seecamp, Autagua, NAA Guardian and the Micro Desert Eagle.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The 9x19mm case may only be physically 2mm longer than the .380 and using bullets of the same diameter, but it operates at nearly twice the pressure and generates substantially greater recoil forces. There are 9mm pistols that are very nearly as small as the smallest .380s (Kahr PM9, Diamondback DB9, Rorbaugh R9), but it'd be basically impossible to make a durable, reliable 9mm that was both as small and as light as the Kel Tec P3AT.

This is my Diamondback DB9 pictured between my Kel Tec PF9 and P3AT





That critter really is as thin and light as a 9mm can be, and being that small, it does not handle >124 gr. bullets or +P ammo well. I shot some 135 gr. Hornady Critical Duty through it, and the recoil was quite brisk. Perfectly manageable with standard pressure 115 gr. JHP, though.