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380acp penetration

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by jimbo555, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. kokapelli

    kokapelli Senior Member

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    So then you think 20" plus is not enough?
     
  2. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    Well, you never know, do you?

    Like you said, sometimes there's a bone to get through and some people are just plain monster sized.
     
  3. kokapelli

    kokapelli Senior Member

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    Ok,but I would like to point out that Buffalo Bore 380 HC is about $1.20 + shipping per cartridge, verses WWB with truncated bullet for .32 cents per round and a lot of people think the WWB round has too much penetration.

    Whatever floats your boat.
     
  4. Weevil

    Weevil Member

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    20" through gel with a .380 should still translate into some decent penetration through skin, bones, arms and hands, muscle, leather jackets, etc.... in the real world even at odd angles.

    18 inches through gel is generally considered optimum for HPs in the larger service calibers like 9mm, .40, and .45.
     
  5. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    Yea, I hear you. That's why I load essentially an equivalent of BB for about a nickel a pop.
     
  6. Gary A

    Gary A Senior Member

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    What I am about to say is purely supposition but I believe it is a reasonable supposition. For many years .380 (and .32) was a very popular civilian self defense caliber and even police caliber in Europe and other overseas locations. During many or most of these years, hollowpoints were either non-existent or very rare and typically did not feed well in most semi autos. I believe .380 was popular in civilian settings because .380 fmj penetrated enough but not too much and if it over-penetrated, most of its energy was spent. 9mm fmj, on the other hand, clearly was over-penetrative and still carried lethal energy after doing so which made it suitable for military use but not in a crowded civilian setting. I believe the same physics apply today and agree with those posters who recommend a truncated cone fmj in .380. I also agree that most, if not all .380 hollowpoint ammo and pistol combinations are unable to provide both adequate expansion and penetration. .380 can provide one or the other but seldom both. JMO.
     
  7. exavid

    exavid Member

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    To me the higher price of ammo such as Hornady Critical Defense isn't worth considering since I use that ammo for carry and my handloads for range practice. One thing I like about them is that they are cannelured so are much likely to have bullet setback due to recoil or feed ramp while in the magazine. I've seen some smiley's on bullets in my LCP, not deep ones but definitely some contact with the bottom end of the feed ramp while in the magazine. It's never caused a problem though set back is a possible cause of overpressure. With the cannelured rounds you can tell at a glance if the bullet(s) in the magazine have been set back. I think a lot of set back in .380s is due to the thin shell mouth not providing a strong enough crimp, especially on used brass in hand loading.
    Here's an interesting posting on the matter. It's written concerning the Keltec but the LCP is very similar and does show smileys in some guns.
    http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/smiley.htm
     
  8. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Senior Member

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    I carry Corbon DPX in all of my 380's. Majority of BG's run at sight of pistol . If shooting starts their really trying to get out. Their looking for easy target. Not a firefight.
    Look at all the video's of robberys. Where clerk is armed Their trying to get out the door . Look at the 2 in Fl The old man with the 380 in the computer cafe. He started firing BG falling over each other trying to get out door. Security guard drawing and firing again the BG's trying to get back out.
    I keep my DPX Demin doesn't bother it and it expans . If goes 10 inches Iam happy Also I never seen any BG in robbery films doing that 2 handed type hold in the picture .
     
  9. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Senior Member

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    ^ BG#1 in Florida Internet casino had a non-functioning pistol, BG#2 had a baseball bat, so yes they were making tracks - but this is anecdotal.

    You can't base your bullet selection on some statistical data of the behavior of felons.

    For these 380s that are penetrating 16"+

    I wonder how many of those bullets have the energy to actualy break out of the back of an assailant's body. I kind of think that regardless of what they're doing in gel, in actual shootings I think they probably recover those bullets embedded in the back ribcage - or maybe just under the skin on the back. Just a hunch...
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  10. kokapelli

    kokapelli Senior Member

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    Awhile back a guy committed suicide in my area while in his car and he shot himself through his heart with a 380.

    The bullet went clean through his body, through the back of his seat and through the back of the rear seat of his car and was recovered in the trunk.

    The article included the brand of pistol, but I don't remember what it was, but the type of ammo was not mentioned.
     
  11. Cokeman

    Cokeman Member

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    What brand?
     
  12. Odd Job

    Odd Job Senior Member

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    I've tried the P3AT and the 238 and if it was up to me I would pick the 238 and use FMJ.
    Not sure whether I would use the truncated cone or the standard round nose, that would depend on reliability testing (I would favour the truncated cone if it is reliable as folks indicate in this thread).

    Regarding penetration, the little .380 does just fine in FMJ. One of my research cases involved a woman who was shot with her arms raised up in a defensive posture by a bad guy. The bullet hit her hand at the base of the fifth proximal phalanx in the web and caused multiple fractures:

    1) Fifth proximal phalanx
    2) Fifth metacarpal
    3) Fourth metacarpal
    4) Hamate
    5) Distal ulna
    6) Radial head

    The bullet ended up posterior to the distal humerus. Here is one possible trajectory (other arm shown down for clarity):

    [​IMG]
     
  13. kokapelli

    kokapelli Senior Member

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    Brand or bullet type wasn't mentioned in the report.
     
  14. 481

    481 Senior Member

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    As always an excellent post, Odd Job.

    Your preference for the FMJTCs is well taken. Truncated cone FMJs offer slightly greater penetration than round nose FMJs when weight and velocity are held constant.

    For example, according to the Schwartz bullet penetration model, a .380 95 gr FMJTC @ 900fps will produce 19.41 inches of soft tissue penetration whereas a .380 95 gr FMJRN @ 900fps will produce 18.68 inches of soft tissue penetration- the difference being about 0.73 inches or 3.9% more penetration.

    The meplat on the FMJTC will also tend to cause the FMJTC to track straighter than the FMJRN which may yaw during penetration reducing penetration depth further.
     
  15. 3twelves

    3twelves member

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    Being that there are plenty of small 9mm pistols out the same size as a .380 and cost the same (ammo/gun), .380 pistols and ammo are obsolete.
     
  16. Gary A

    Gary A Senior Member

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    I think that's absurd. It's like saying that because there are plenty of small .357 revolvers out there the same size as a .38 and cost the same, .38 Special revolvers and ammo are obsolete.
     
  17. 3twelves

    3twelves member

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    Can you shoot .380 in a 9mm? No
    .38 spl costs less and can be shot out of a .357 so that makes it useful.


    Would rather use a .38spl+p for SD than a .380
     
  18. kokapelli

    kokapelli Senior Member

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    My son who had a P238 purchased a P938 a few weeks ago also and they are almost identical accept the 938 is slightly larger.

    After shooting the P938 I can tell you there is a very significant difference in recoil and it is enough for me to to not want to upgrade from my P238 to the 9mm P938.

    I'm not sure what you mean about 380 ammo being obsolete?
     
  19. 3twelves

    3twelves member

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    I would rather have a little more recoil than an inferior cartridge.
     
  20. kokapelli

    kokapelli Senior Member

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    And I would rather have a gun I can shoot better. To each his own.
     
  21. WYO

    WYO Member

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    I ditched my P238 as soon as I declared my P938 reliable. They both shoot great, although follow-up shots are slightly slower with the P938. But, an extra 100 fps with a hollow point bullet weighing 29 grains more is worth the trade off in split times to me.
     
  22. Gary A

    Gary A Senior Member

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    That's a good point, 3twelves, but I still believe it is all about different options for different people and needs and small 9mm pistols do not obsolete small .380 pistols IMO. It's all about options.
     
  23. Cokeman

    Cokeman Member

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    Pistol. You said the pistol type was mentioned.
     
  24. Cokeman

    Cokeman Member

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    Tell me about the plenty of 9mm pistols that are the same size as my P380. I can think of one that comes close and I can't cough up the $1000+ for it.
     
  25. 3twelves

    3twelves member

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    The 4 in the middle, little bigger.

    [​IMG]
     

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