IMTHDUKE
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Going to buy a Dan Wesson Guardian. What are the pros and cons of a 38 super vs 45acp? I am talking ballistics for ccw, not price of ammo. Thanks
38Super vs 45ACP?
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highlander 5
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45 auto will be a lot easier to find and cheaper.
One more round. 9 vs 8 round magazines.
If I was concerned about defense, I'd be wondering where I'm going to find premium 38 Super defense loads. If there isn't anything on the higher end, then you are at a disadvantage compared to either 45 or 9mm.
Just make sure you .38 super handgun has a fully supported chamber. Sometimes things get pretty interesting, especially when some one hand loads them and tries to hot rod the round. Was common for a while when guys wanted to shoot the super yet make major.
JohnnyFlake
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For normal, 25 yards or less, defensive situations, you cannot beat the .45acp. The .38 Super is an interesting round, but not better than the .45acp. The only advantage IMHO is it would have a flatter trajectory, at ranges beyond 25 yards. The problem with .38 Super is finding SD Ammo and it tends to beat guns up.
tipoc
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As I said elsewhere the Guardian is an alloy framed pistol. Having owned both and two Colt Commanders in 45 and 38 Super, and both 45s and 38 Super DW Guardians, I think the Super is a better choice in that particular gun. (Later on get a 45 and Guardian and judge for yourself.)
An extra round, or two depending on the mags used. Less recoil both actual and felt.
While the Super generally has more energy (depending on the load and bullet weight), the 45 acp has more mass and of course leaves a bigger hole. The Super, depending on the bullet and the medium tends to penetrate more, or has the capacity to.
For example Cor-Bon offers a 125 gr. jhp bullet at 1350 fps from a 5" barrel, slightly less, but not much less, from the Guardian's barrel that produces 487 ft. pds. of energy. This is pretty standard for the Super. See below:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...r-p-125-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
Or a 147 gr. jhp at about 1150 fps from Buffalo Bore which is also within pressure limits and produces 432 ft pds. of energy.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...r-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
What it comes down to is which gun you feel works best with which round. Both are excellent at the job.
My preference, is the Super in the alloy framed piece.
38 Super as a rule does not beat up guns. It is much milder on guns than 9mm+P.
tipoc
An extra round, or two depending on the mags used. Less recoil both actual and felt.
While the Super generally has more energy (depending on the load and bullet weight), the 45 acp has more mass and of course leaves a bigger hole. The Super, depending on the bullet and the medium tends to penetrate more, or has the capacity to.
For example Cor-Bon offers a 125 gr. jhp bullet at 1350 fps from a 5" barrel, slightly less, but not much less, from the Guardian's barrel that produces 487 ft. pds. of energy. This is pretty standard for the Super. See below:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...r-p-125-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
Or a 147 gr. jhp at about 1150 fps from Buffalo Bore which is also within pressure limits and produces 432 ft pds. of energy.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...r-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
What it comes down to is which gun you feel works best with which round. Both are excellent at the job.
My preference, is the Super in the alloy framed piece.
38 Super as a rule does not beat up guns. It is much milder on guns than 9mm+P.
tipoc
Which guns are you comparing? 1911s in both .38 and 9mm? P220s in both? Few platforms were built for both cartridges.
stiab
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I think cfullgraf's "two more" is the correct answer for me. A stock P220 mag holds 9 rounds of Super 38, and my 1911 Chip McCormick mags hold 10 Super rounds.
I was going by what was listed on the DW website. Does anyone make flush fit 10 round mags, or just the extended ones like the Chip and Metalform 10s?
bannockburn
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One thing with the .38 Super is that with the addition of a barrel assembly and magazines you can shoot 9mm. in your gun for less expensive practice time at the range. Really love my Colt Commander in .38 Super! In the same size gun in .45 I have always preferred the all steel Combat Commander.
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stiab
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The Chip is flush fit 10 rounds.
tipoc
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I'm thinking of pressure, and I should have explained that. I was replying to the statement made earlier that 38 Super was rough on guns. For a 9mm round to come close to what the 38 Super can do the 9mm must go to +P or +P+ pressures. Those pressure over time are rougher on guns than standard velocity 9mm. Exactly how much on what guns will vary.
The Super has greater case capacity and so it's standard pressures are below that of 9 mm+P or +P+. For 9mm to send a 124 gr. bullet out at 1200 fps requires +P pressures. The same bullet from the 38 Super can exceed that by a bit but remain within standard pressures for it.
Technically for the Super there is no SAMMI official +P. The +P designation was added by marketing gurus some years after the older 38 acp was chambered for the Colt "Super 38" 1911. The designation helped keep people from chambering the more powerful loadings for the Super from being placed in the older 38 acp guns. The 38 acp became the 38 Super, and later 38 Super +P. Same round just a more powerful loading, usually that some some companies load the Super to older 38 acp levels.
tipoc
So you're not talking about actual guns, just theoretical ones?
The reality is that if you built two 1911s - one in .38 Super and the other in 9mm - then fired the same number of rounds loaded to the same velocity, you wouldn't see any real difference in gun life. Unless you're saying that the 9mm +P pressures are going to split the chamber eventually, the wear and tear comes form the recoil impulse, not the peak pressure. But the chamber isn't going to split and the gun won't behave differently between the two.
Dog Soldier
member
The Colt 1911 .38 Super does not have a ramped barrel. The Colt can be loaded to high pressures using the .38 Super Compt. Brass. The .38 Super Compt has a stronger rim and web. This brass also headspaces in the case mouth.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/38-Super-Comp-Brass/
https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/38-Super-Comp-Brass/
ny32182
Member
There is very little, if any, factory 38 super or super comp ammo out there, so that makes it strictly a handloading-only proposition if that matters to you.
38 super is basically a gamer round. If you aren't shooting it in USPSA Open, I don't personally see much point in it. Even 357sig is much more available if you want a slightly hotter 9mm carry round.
38 super is basically a gamer round. If you aren't shooting it in USPSA Open, I don't personally see much point in it. Even 357sig is much more available if you want a slightly hotter 9mm carry round.
rskent
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A 45 makes a bigger hole, blood runs out faster.
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