38Super vs 45ACP?

[stiab]

There is very little, if any, factory 38 super...ammo out there...

I have factory .38 Super from Winchester, Remington, PMC, Magtech, Armscor, UMC, Aguila, Fioochi, and American Eagle. Just opened up my new Corbon 2016 catalog today and they offer it in 7 more factory loads that I don't have.

 

[tipoc]

So you're not talking about actual guns, just theoretical ones?

The reality is that if you built two 1911s - one in .38 Super and the other in 9mm - then fired the same number of rounds loaded to the same velocity, you wouldn't see any real difference in gun life. Unless you're saying that the 9mm +P pressures are going to split the chamber eventually, the wear and tear comes form the recoil impulse, not the peak pressure. But the chamber isn't going to split and the gun won't behave differently between the two.

You make a good point and I concede that. I made the mistake of thinking of guns built for 9mm that with 9mm+P ammo and +P+ see easier wear due to the increased slide velocity over time, the BHP and the M92 are two examples of this...

(see the following discussion http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/BHPandHighPressureAmmo.htm).

But neither guns are in 38 Super so there is no comparison. In a 1911 there is no issue with the 9mm and early wear. Neither is there an issue with the 1911 and the 38 Super, and excessive pistol wear, which is the point I was addressing.

9x23 and barrel wear is another question.

"Super face" is a different phenomena. Back when making Major Power Factor in IDPA was 175 (before it was lowered to allow for the 9mm) you could make it in either 38 Super or 45acp. 38 Super had less recoil and faster follow up particularly with a compensated gun. So folks were loading heavy bullets to make Major 158-200 gns. in some cases and sometimes loading them to above 40,000 psi to 50,000 psi pressure. With unsupported chambers case failures and blowouts occurred, folks called it "Super face". But ya can't count that cause you can overload any round.

Fellas can read more about that here: http://38super.net/Pages/Major.html
and here: http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

One other point...so far as the Super being "unproven" because there are not enough gel tests. There are also not enough gel tests for the 41 Magnum or the 44 Spl. either for that matter and for the same reasons.

It's only "unproven" in gel tests if you ignore the evidence for the 9mm and the 357 Sig. The Super uses the same 9mm bullets as those rounds at about the same velocities in some cases. It's the bullet that does the work so a 147 gr. bullet for 357 Sig at 1225 fps will do the same work in the Super at the same velocity. If we handload we can add that since we can use bullets for both the 38 Spl. and the 38 Magnum in the Super we have a number of good "proven" options in bullets.

tipoc

 

[Dog Soldier]

I have never seen any shortage in the .38 Super Ammo? And yes it is like most handgun ammo is reloaded for best results. It is a very controllable round providing .357 Mag. ballistics. It is popular in IPSC as is the .45 ACP.

http://38super.net/Pages/comparisons.html

 

[CDW4ME]

38 Super ballistics are similar to 357 Sig.
Energy oriented folks prefer 357 Sig over 40 S&W and are willing to absorb the additional cost of shooting.
I've got niche calibers: 10mm, 45 GAP and 357 Sig, 38 Super is in the niche club; I assume you are willing to buy online ammo and / or handload.
https://www.underwoodammo.com/38-super/
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=303_339

Availability aside, strictly from a SD perspective, a 230 gr. 45 HST or Ranger T expanding .85'' - 1.00'' is hard to beat - IMO.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

 

[jeepnik]

Yeah, thus the term ""super face" came to be.

Yep, saw that once. Not pretty. Didn't make a real difference in the guy pretty, but ruined a good gun.

 

[Deanimator]

Going to buy a Dan Wesson Guardian. What are the pros and cons of a 38 super vs 45acp? I am talking ballistics for ccw, not price of ammo. Thanks

With the right ammunition, either will get the job done.

I carry a 3.5" Citadel M1911 in .45acp every day. I carry either Hornady or Speer 200gr. JHPs. I've got zero worries about anybody not wearing body armor.

Before I bought the Citadel, I was thinking about a Rock Island .38 Super in nickel. As in 9x19mm, I'd go with the heaviest JHP I could find. This would be my choice:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=229

 

[jeepnik]

For those that doubt the .38 super will "get the job done", please learn it's history. One of the reasons for its coming to be was that law enforcement wanted something that would penetrate auto bodies. Medium caliber, relatively high velocity, and proper bullets allowed it to do so. Remember, it came about in 1928, and there were some folks running around just killing whoever they wanted. And, cars back then were actually made of steel, not plastic and aluminum.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The .38 Super was made for law enforcement officers. The .45 ACP was not reliable for penetrating auto bodies. Thompson Sub-Guns chambered in .38 Super could rip up a Ford V-8.

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/38-super/

 

[Walkalong]

Niche caliber eh. Well, then I'm a niche kind of guy sometimes. I saw this Witness in .38 Super at a gun show a few years ago, and lusted over it, but passed. The next time that seller came to a show here he still had it, so I figured it was karma and I was destined to own it. That's my excuse anyway.

 

[stiab]

 

[bannockburn]

Walkalong

The next time that seller came to a show here he still had it, so I figured it was karma and I was destined to own it. That's my excuse anyway.

Works for me! Still kick myself for not picking up a Browning BDA in .38 Super when dealers were practically giving them away because there was very little interest in them at the time.

 

[Walkalong]

Still kick myself for not picking up a Browning BDA in .38 Super

Well I guess so. Unfortunately, I have a couple of "I'm still kicking myself" stories myself.

 

[KimberLover]

I have three Kimber 38 supers and I would not swap one of them for a 45.
I shoot CCI ammo and have never had a failure.
There is a plus side to 38 supers...S&W 60-14 and 686's will shoot the 38 super ammo.

 

[stiab]

There is a plus side to 38 supers...S&W 60-14 and 686's will shoot the 38 super ammo.

And several other revolvers as well, including Colt Pythons and S&W Model 66. As to the Model 60, older versions will not chamber the Super, more recent (maybe 90's forward?) will chamber them. Here's a cylinder full in my M66...

 

[bannockburn]

KimberLover

There is a plus side to 38 supers...S&W 60-14 and 686's will shoot the 38 super ammo.

I did not know that; thanks for the info! Will have to give it a try sometime in my Model 686.

 

[RainDodger]

I have both... I'd recommend being a hand loader if you have a .38 Super. It's the best way to take advantage of the ballistics of that round. If you're buying ammo in a store, get a .45ACP. That being said, I carried my .38 Super for years (Kimber Pro Carry HD) and it's a great, reliable gun. Now I generally carry a little smaller/lighter gun.... XDs in .45ACP.