4 gauge deer load

[KarlSG]

Anyone want to have fun some devising some ideas for a load. Not the powder, wads etc I can manage that. Just what you reckon you could take a deer at 100 yards with if I give you the following.

One shot from a .998 cal cyclinder 4 gauge nitro proofed falling block smoothbore.

A 5 1/2 to 6 oz payload of any shot size, or muzzleloader ball size you want.

1200-1400fps velocity.

(No full calibre slugs or rifling(which is a different project))

This is a real project by the way.Thanks for any suggestions and have fun.

Karl.

 

[Gordon]

4 oz. of .44cal balls and 2oz. charge of FG Black powder or equivalent of Pyrodex Cannon. for a starter load.

 

[KarlSG]

Gordon, this one is nitro smokeless breechloader, rated to 50,000PSI so we could away with smaller hotter powder column and push up over 5 ounces okay.Maybe close to 6.
but you reckon the .44 cal balls are the answer?

Karl.

 

[KarlSG]

Here are the cases. Regular case on right is a 30-06 by the way. The guy who did them is regular here from years back Ed Hubel and posted this photo already. There are two maybe three affordable actions available now that will house it. By affordable I mean 1/30th of what Holland and Holland would charge you to build one.

 

[Dave McCracken]

100 yards kinda precludes buck, even 44 caliber. Given the parameters, a slug or RB load would be a better choice.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

What deer? Crikey.

 

[SDC]

Does Ed sell individual rounds, Karl? I'd love to get an example for a cartridge collection

 

[artech]

How about a four ounce saboted slug?

 

[KarlSG]

Could do if someone made them.With the rifled barrel it will fire those big 2000gn slugs in the photo, any speed up to 1800ps if someone can hang onto the gun. I might have to look at a paradox rifled idea so I can still play with shot.

SDC I believe he might. I know he was handing out one of his other creations the 4" 12 gauge from hell cases, here earlier in the year. His details are on this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2398764&highlight=hubel#post2398764

Karl.

 

[SDC]

Thanks

 

[LaEscopeta]

100 yards kinda precludes buck, even 44 caliber. Given the parameters, a slug or RB load would be a better choice.

This chart backs up the above statement:

(Source for the above chart: http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/shotguns/shotgun_ammunition.html)

Apparently even 00 buck has about 55 ft-lbs of kinetic energy when 100 yards down range. I understand the U.S. Army considers 60 ft-lbs the minimum for an effective shrapnel wound, and I don’t think shrapnel wounds can be called effective or humane for deer hunting. I’m thinking you are going to need kinetic energy of 90 to 140 ft-lbs per projectile at 100 yards (same as #1 or 00 buck at 20 to 30 yards.)

I figure .44 caliber lead balls would weight 128+/- grains and have a sectional density of .0944+/- (some one can please check my math.) With a muzzle velocity of 1300 feet per second, my ballistic calculator puts that in the 90 to 140 ft-lbs range at 100 yards (but my ballistic calculator is an spread sheet I downloaded for free from the internet so I’m not vouching for its correctness.)

Of course you can only fit 17 .44 caliber balls in a 5 once load, or 20 in a 6 once load, so I’m not sure you are going to get a tight enough pattern at 100 yards to get enough good hits on a deer.

4 oz. of .44cal balls and 2oz. charge of FG Black powder or equivalent of Pyrodex Cannon. for a starter load.

That’s what you need. Just add in an air burst timed fuse and the $200 destructive device tax stamp for each shell, and you’re going deer hunting.

p.s. Karl, Just noticed you are from Australia. What deer hunting do you all have down there? I've read there are some fenced in venison farms; they offer sport hunting too?

 

[KarlSG]

Laescopeta, Yes some fenced, some free,some no limit on shooting, all introduced species. http://www.austdeer.com.au/deer.php

Thanks for that diagram and that is what I was thinking.I will try and pattern a few loads for interests sake. Hardcast 000 buck, which with a little higher sectional density and 70grains started out at 1400 will have around that 90ftlbs, though only 36 pellets or so maybe still in the iffy category too.

What I was really hoping to occur would be some surprising pattern with a large hardcast roundball load. Like dixie gunworks gets with their 3 ball buckshot, out to 40 yards. only 6 " group with 3, 300grain balls. That will just be trial and error on paper , though the whole thing is interesting to discuss.

At any rate I guess I will not have problems stopping a half dozen guys from boarding my boat or storming the walls of my castle at 75 yards

Karl.

 

[zero_chances]

I think it would be interesting to have a bunch of say .223 bullets(just the projectiles) nice and lined up in a full length shot cup.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

A 25 mike mike shell?

Seriously though, how about a sabot cut for various caliber bullets? IE, you could vary the powder charge with the sabot and pretty much have any caliber gun/velocity with that type of gun.

 

[KarlSG]

Excusing my multiple posting gents (how do you delete posts here?) JE know anyone who can make sabots like that? Ed Hubel was using regular 12 ga sabots in his 12 Guage from hell, which on a 50BMG action meant he was getting 3900fps with 325 gn muzzleloader x bullets. I guess the same could be done for this.

Karl.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

Don't know anyone who makes such a beast, but the making of such a sabot could be done by anyone with a lathe.

The stock shouldn't be too hard to find, probably Nylon or delrin and the bore diameter is pretty close to 1" so no problems there. The only thing that I can think of is that the chamber where the bullet sits must be toleranced such that the bullet is held under compression such that it resists the torque imparted onto it from the rifling (IE rotates with the sabot). But not so tight that the drag force from the air overcome (bullet leaves sabot).

Overall, probably a very fun project.

 

[Gordon]

The reason I suggested .44 caliber balls is they will stack side by side in your bore.Use Grex filler and G-d knows what driver- or thick felt. I would not want to guess a slow smoke less powder starter load. I saw a guy blow apart (with some injury) a line throwing gun trying to use a slow smokeless (think he tried H870) with a heavy shaft down barrel. The standard 4 gauge load was of course 4 oz., anything else is cannon work. You could epoxy a tranducer to your breech and use an Oehler Lab scope (about $600).

 

[sm]

KarlSG,

Do you have a teenage daughter the boys are falling over themselves for?

Just set this thing on the front porch the next time a pimple faced boy shows up.
I guess an old shirt with a hole in it hanging next to this 4 gauge wouldn't hurt.

Wouldn't even have to "fire for effect".

"Last boy brought my daughter in late - won't be doing so again..."

 

[KarlSG]

sm no daughter unless she is being brought up overseas near an army base somewhere The gun is more about that we lost our semi autos here a few years ago and this is my way of firing an autoloader tube of shells.
Gordon there will certainly be some safety work go into developing these loads. I am hoping general strength of the action and the brass, both about three times higher rating than original 4 bores will give me the leeway I need.And then see just what I can stuff in the case.As to sabots, well I came here to clear up one crazy idea and now I get a another crazy idea to try out. Well they warned me about this site...I gotta have a think about a rifled barrel now.