Questions/Concerns about the .40 Caliber

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My life, and the lives of people employed by our company could depend on the weapons they carry. We respect their rights as professionals, to have some say in their weapons and we have guidelines as well. Glocks are on the approved list. Of the failure stories looked into of Glocks, it seems operator error was the main cause. Any gun, plane, train, or ice cream cone can fail. Nothing is 100%. I carried a Glock 23 for several years, with never a problem. It has only recently been replaced with the Taurus OSS 24/7 45. The Taurus OSS line passed a series of tests to our satisfaction, and has been added to the approved list. The 40 cal has been around, long enough to prove itself. Glock has to. Any questions, feel free to contact me. Good luck in your study, I would like to know the results. Have a great day.
 
The full load 10mm is closer to 1300-1400fps, I think you're confused with the "FBI light load" Did you even read the post you commented on and called BS? The reason the FBI came up with the light load is due to heavy recoil. When the powder charge is lessened, it is more similar to the .40S&W.
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No, you don't get it. The FBI NEVER tested full power Norma level 10mm ammunition. The 10mm load used and tested was that it met the requirement that the gun and ammo combination could not recoil more than the M1911A1 with 230gr ball. The Norma ammunition, which could not be obtained due to import restrictions in time, would not have been allowed because it would not meet this requirement anyway.

The FBI did not "create" or "develop" the light load. It was handloaded by one of the agents for his personal firearm chambered in 10mm to those ballistics. That was the only ammo available at the time so they tested that load. The FBI had no influence on the 10mm ballistics nor the creation of the .40 S&W. The .40 S&W was a Winchester and S&W project done in secrecy.

Can you back up the politics claim with proof? Seems interesting. I'd like to learn more.
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Just personal accounts with people that were directly involved. My uncle was one of the ballistic engineers at Winchester at the time and my father worked for S&W's government and LE department and was assigned the FBI account. He lost his job at S&W when the FBI canceled the contract.
 
The reason FBI developed 10mm reduced velocity is because it realized the 180gr 10mm JHP bullet has the same sectional density as .45 ACP 230gr. When propelled at a velocity about 100 fps faster than (then) 230gr .45 ACP bullets, it outperformed other cartridges in achieving 12-inches minimum penetration in all 8 test events - without the recoil of the full power 10mm loading.

The 1076 pistol was an attempt by the FBI to have a frame mounted SIG decocker system, instead of a slide mounted hammer drop safety, in an S&W auto pistol. The 1076 had its problems, which were eventually fixed by S&W. But, in a nutshell, by then .40 S&W had proved itself and the FBI adopted it and sold the 1076 pistols.

The FBI chose 10mm to hedge its bet on the load it developed. If shootings revealed the 180gr/980 fps cartridge didn't work as anticipated then 10mm still offered plenty of opportunity for load development.
 
No, you don't get it. The FBI NEVER tested full power Norma level 10mm ammunition.
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According to FBI 1989 Ammunition Tests publication it tested Norma 170gr (1358 fps from 5" Colt delta Elite) and it achieved a 100% success rate (with an average penetration of 18.44" for all 8 test events). The test documentation states: "CAUTION: Velocities, pressures and recoil are extreme, vary greatly, and damage weapons with extended use. Control for multiple shots extremely difficult."
 
Shawn Dodson, RhinoDefense can we get back to the OP (perhaps your "spirited discussion" needs a new thread) :D
OP:
I've read on here and other forums about serious malfunctions with the .40 and Glock models. I think the term used was "kaboom." (and let me add here that, while not my favorite, I do like and appreciate Glock guns.) Is this something with the caliber itself, or the gun? It seems that problems with CZ guns tend to be the .40 also. So what gives? Is there an inherent problem with the .40 concerning feeding or another issue? Are there enough examples of guns out there that have zero issues handling that round? If so, which tend to handle it better?

And as far as the "kaboom" thing, is this just overhyped? Are there examples of other caliber Glocks having this problem?
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As to OP and already posted, KaBooms in Glocks is overhyped as they are often done with double/over-charged reloads. No serious malfunctions in 40S&W Glocks that are properly maintained and shooting standard pressure loads. KaBooms are not inherent to 40S&W or Glocks as there were plenty of KBs in 357Mag/44Mag/45ACP/38Super long before Glocks and often with double/over-charged reloads.
 
It seems that problems with CZ guns tend to be the .40 also. So what gives? Is there an inherent problem with the .40 concerning feeding or another issue?
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No, more a gun design issue. Quite often, a .40-chambered gun is little more than a 9mm design with a different barrel and magazine. Sometimes this works, sometimes not.
 
KaBooms in Glocks is overhyped as they are often done with double/over-charged reloads. No serious malfunctions in 40S&W Glocks that are properly maintained and shooting standard pressure loads.
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Hmmm... In regard to Glock:

"In various handgun courses over the years I have personally witnessed five (5!) kB!s, all with factory-new .40 S&W ammo. Yes, two were with the earlier Federal 165-grain Hydra-Shok, but I've also seen it happen with 180-grain Winchester Ranger and 155-grain Speer Gold Dot HPs."

- Ken Hackathorn, World
Class Firearms Instructor
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The HK USP was actually designed around the .40SW. It is an excellent combination of velocity, flat trajectory, and stopping power in one cartridge. In the proper platform, in an all purpose scenario, I believe it's superior to both the 9mm and 45acp. Just my two cents.
 
While I am not personally a fan of the .40 chambering, it has become very popular and there are some great platforms that support it.

I've seen and personally prefer folks having better luck when they pick a platform than was designed around the cartridge rather than one that was adapted to handle it from a 9mm platform...they just seem to run better.

The more well-known platforms designed around the .40 include the Sig 229, the H&K USP/P2000 series(and the follow-on P30) and the S&W M&P. This isn't to say other manufacturers haven't been able to adapt their 9mm platforms to the .40...just that there seem to be fewer issues with platforms designed around the round
 
If you have any concerns about shooting the .40 (and you shouldn't) just get yourself an HK - I went with a new P30, and forget about:

1. It blowing up

2. Excessive recoil

3. The grip not fitting you

IMO the P30 .40S&W is the finest combat pistol on the market today.
 
REAPER4206969 said:
That was the frame rails breaking. Not in anyway due to caliber BTW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQp6JhYytfM
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it wasn't just the fact of missing rails, it evidently led to them cracking, which my department had several of. we only had the g22, g23, and the g21 (along with hk models) so we only had broken .40 cal models, but the paperwork that was sent to us from glock still posessed by our armorer states affected models we're .40 cal, .357 sig, and possibly 10mm due to the nature of the high pressure rounds exploiting the flaw. they offered to replace affected models at $5 a piece at the time, but my department decided to go with only hk. regardless though, i'd still like to stress to other readers that it's not an inherent glock problem, it was a bad run like any manufacturer can have/has had.
 
Hmmm... In regard to Glock:


Quote:
"In various handgun courses over the years I have personally witnessed five (5!) kB!s, all with factory-new .40 S&W ammo. Yes, two were with the earlier Federal 165-grain Hydra-Shok, but I've also seen it happen with 180-grain Winchester Ranger and 155-grain Speer Gold Dot HPs."

- Ken Hackathorn, World
Class Firearms Instructor

__________________
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I don't know about the reliability of Ken Hackathorn. I have myself witnessed one Glock KB that occured with a double charged reload in a Glock model 21 which I now own and shoot on a regular basis. It no longer sees any reloads.
 
"In various handgun courses over the years I have personally witnessed five (5!) kB!s, all with factory-new .40 S&W ammo.
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Out of all the .40 Glock's he's seen in classes only five reports of catastrophic failure with factory ammunition. Even if we do away with the possibility of ammo manufacturing defects and bullet set back, five is still a good record.
 
If about 2.5 million Glocks were sold world-wide and if 10,000 Glocks have issues, that's about 0.4% of manufactured units. I wonder what the issue rates for other manufacturers are ...
 
how many 10mm's?
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Probably not many compared to their top sellers (9x19/.40/.380) but it's certainly the best selling 10mmAuto in the world. The 20 is used by the Danish Siriuspatruljen and Greenland.
 
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