.40 CZ 75B / SIG 226 / XD reliability

[judaspriest]

I am looking for a primary .40 pistol. The overriding criteria are:

- reliability (including wet weather / dust)
- ability to support reloading

I would have probably gone with a GLOCK if it weren't for the not fully supported chamber.

Other nice-to-haves are:

- ease of maintenance (cleaning). Again, would have gone with a GLOCK if I could...

Price and superb accuracy would also be nice to have, but not at the expense of the three above.

I read a lot of nice things about the CZ and the Sigs are pretty much universally respected as great guns. However, I am having a hard time trying to find an indication of their reliability. H&K USP, Beretta 92 and S&W M&P might also be candidates, but I see more mixed opinions on those.

Please share your thoughts. Which one would you rather have by your side if your life totally depended on it?

Thanks,

JP

 

[wally]

Since the CZ 75B can be carried cocked and locked it'd be my first choice of the three you mentioned if the first shot has got to count. XD would be my second choice, trigger is decent. DA/SA SIGs great guns but I never could get used to the DA/SA transition. DAO at least makes the pull consistent, but I hit better SA, case closed.

--wally.

 

[Mayo]

1. SIG
2. XD
3. CZ

All 3 reliable, but SIG stands out IMO.

 

[Clint Westwood]

1. Sig
2. CZ
3. Anything beside XD. I have always said the XD is over-rated. Great gun for the price, but I would own 100 CZ's before I bought another XD.

 

[drizzico]

The following Anecdotal evidence:

Although I'm not an XD owner, A indoor range (http://www.pdhsc.com/)here in NC rents hand guns for use in their range. According to a friend of mine they put an XD in the rental cabinet and wanted to see at what point it would fail. The last time he checked they had put approx. 5000 rounds through it and only wiped it down after the shooter finished with it. They had not as of that time had any issues with it. Now this story is a few months old and I don't know when I can get over to the range to confirm it but if and when I get over to Raleigh for a IDPA match I check and see what its status is.

Dave

 

[scubie02]

I own two XD's, used to own a CZ-75 and a Sig Pro, have fired a number of other sig's. I never experienced a failure of any kind with any of them, so they all get top marks for reliability in my book.

Ergonomics wise (for me) the XD's win hands down, though many like the CZ's as well. Sig's are a distant third (to me).

Accuracy wise of the ones I have owned, the XD's were tops, though the CZ was right there with them. The CZ's come with much smaller sights though--prefer the Xd's which show up better (though I haven't owned a CZ in a couple of years now, I suppose that could have changed, but not to my knowledge). Maybe it's a fluke, since so many seem to like them, but I have never owned or fired a Sig that was super accurate, but that may just be ergonomics or something for me--a bit blocky for my tastes.

as far as take down, I'd again say XD. The CZ's aren't hard per se, just more old fashioned and not as easy as the XD's.

I guess those are the reasons I own xd's now and traded the sig and cz

 

[Bilt4Comfort]

Well....nothing really I can add to the previous post.
XD has been 100% reliable for me thus far.

 

[Lonestar49]

*Another choice

Quote: I am looking for a primary .40 pistol. The overriding criteria are:

- reliability (including wet weather / dust)
- ability to support reloading
- ease of cleaning
---------------
...

XD - No knowledge of gun, other than what I have read.

Sig P229 Carry 40cal (*which I own one in 9mm) also, most expensive of the group: EASY to clean/inspect, Reliability, accurate out of the box - 100%

Sigs: 850 - 1000 bucks

CZ - Accurate out of the box, reliable, price is medium 500 bucks +

Beretta 92 - great platform, accurate, dependable, good choice, medium 500 bucks +

*Beretta Px4 Storm 40cal, Combat gun, accurate out of the box, forgiving of dust, dirt, water, continuous firing without cleaning, EASIEST of the others to inspect/disassemble, clean, and reassemble. Reliability-unquestionable, as I have both the Sig P229 9mm, and the Px4 40cal, and both are easy, fast, to disassemble, inspect, clean, reassemble, and are accurate out of the box.

Unique features of the Px4 includes, a semi-short DA/SA mode, with a small pull of the trigger until you hear the first "click", hammer moves back, you'll see, making for shorter, easier DA pull, or thumb-cocking hammer into SA mode, along with, 3 backstraps, to customize the grip to your hand. And, most important IMO, is the "rotating barrel" which absorbs alot of the recoil, making it very tame to shoot, once you get the grip down.

Px4 is also medium price: 450 - 600 bucks.

My Sig has gone 2000 rounds, no jams, no failure to fires.. 100%

My Px4 40cal has gone 3950 rounds, no jams, no failure to fires.. 100%


Range: rent guns if you can first.. and in your consideration, should be how "natural" and good/comfy, grip-wise, point to aim, the gun of your choice feels, bar none.

Should also include: Ease of slide action, and if you go DA/SA (with Hammer) Triggered gun, Ease of thumb-cocking hammer into SA mode.


Luck, and let us know what you find



LS

PS.. say hello to Bob, and Franky Lee, as they were also, my best friends..

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

226 and dont worry about the rest.


I reload for my 226's and they will eat anything, easy to take apart in a hurry, never really clean them either, they just keep going and going and going.

 

[ajoker31]

I totally agree with lonestar. PX4 is my first choice a p226 is a close second, CZ and XD are a distant third IMHO....if it's a range gun then CZ would be my first choice because it's slightly more accurate, I just don't find them as refined and reliable. They take some tweaking to really fine tune and I've never had one that's 100%.

Rent a couple or all and work the one you like the best.

Joker

 

[finalcut]

Over 2,000 throgh my XD & one failure that was ammo related

Very reliable, accurate, nice features, and feels better than any other plastic gun I have held.

 

[boogalou]

I think it comes down to which one fits your hand better and/or how much you're willing to spend. All 3 of your choices are reliable and they will probably shoot better then you can hold them. I shoot nothing but reloads in my CZ's and have only rarely had any problems. I've also shot the XD and find it a quality handgun. I can't comment on Sigs since I've never fired one.

 

[mpmarty]

Looks to me like the XD fulfills all your (would have gone with a Glock) needs.
It is much easier to field strip, has fully supported chamber, is accurate, reliable and lighter weight for carry than either the sig or cz. I've got the XD in 45acp and like it just fine. No problems and SA is great if you need support, try that with your other two choices. Further, if you decide to go with the CZ try a Witness first.

 

[JDGray]

The latest .40 Glocks, have a tighter chamber. Supposed to have eliminated the bellied out brass. Check over at GT

 

[ElPasoWrangler]

I own both an XD in 45 and a CZ in 9mm. I love them both and have carried them both. I find them accurate and reliable as neithr has ever had an issue. My XD has night sights installed and my CZ has bot meprolight night sights and Crimson Trace Grips. The CZ is a BD police model and is more accurate than I am but I do enjoy trying to see how many shots I can put in the same hole with both of them at 7 yards (no laser). Shooting two to mass and one to head is almost boringly simple at that and other distances out to 25 yards. The XD is lighter but the CZ is sweet to carry if you can accept a full size steel frame. Besides 17 9mm seems lighter than 13 45acp. CZ was $400 and the XD $529. I carry them in Uncle Mike's IWB holsters. Same holster just change guns.

 

[MarshallDodge]

All are good guns.

I have a Sig P226 in .40 and it has been 100% reliable. It had a failure to eject once when I accidentally fired a 9mm in it that got thrown in a box of reloads. The magazine held it, the gun chambered and fired it, but it did not eject it. No harm to the gun at all.

The XD would be my second choice and the CZ would not be far behind.

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

I've owned and fired Sig P226's for over 20 years, my current 2 are .40 S&W. Never had a problem. I've shot in rain, dust, heat ect.

I also own and XD. I like it a lot, but haven;t shot it enough to get an idea as to how reliable it is.

I would say ease of care goes to Sig hands Down.

I'd go Sig first XD second.

 

[chieftain]

If you have any real gun fighting experience you will choose the SIG.

Appropriately your query asks the singularly most important question first.

Reliability.

SIG is the answer. Having been through several grueling reliability 'tests' the 226 is the answer.

The CZ and XD are good weapons, but neither have any where near the the proven fighting experience of the SIG 226.

More often than not if SIG is able to answer the question, it is the 'best' solution.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[quickcanary]

chieftain, I agree that the Sig is a proven performer, but perhaps with time the XD can gain similar status. Supposedly it endured some pretty harsh trials & tests also, but it hasn't been out long enough to have a track record like Sig's offerings.

I've also heard CZs are tough and have endured plenty of combat and harsh environments. But for some reason when I think of a tough, reliable weapon, CZ isn't the first thing that comes to mind. That would be HK, Glock, Sig, and to some extent, the XD.

 

[boogalou]

The thing is, they are all proven performers, some are just "packaged" better then others. I carry either a CZ PCR, CZ75B, or a CZ40B, and have no doubts about the reliability of them over the higher priced brands.

They also give you the option of DA/SA or cocked & locked.

 

[jferrell54]

Xd40

This past Saturday I fired an M&P40 and a XD40 for several hours. The XD felt better in my hand and they both shot great. So I'm still undecided on which to buy. I am leaning towards the XD. Maybe I'll try them both again in a few weeks.It's funny how one can decide on a car or a computer in days and it's taken me 2 months now and I still can't decide on a handgun. Maybe I'm overloaded with too much information.

 

[browningguy]

I currently have an XD9 for IDPA and a CZ75 for a barbeque gun, shot a few Sigs but I find the trigger reach to long for my svelte hands. If you can reach the trigger ok any one of them will do, my choices would be:

XD - decent trigger, reasonable accuracy, incredibly simple take down and cleaning, reasonable cost, and I really like the grip safety.
CZ - Carried cocked and locked a decent pistol, Im not a fan of their double action pulls unless you have a good gunsmith work on it.
Sig - Absolutely nothing wrong with them, they just don't fit me at all. But I don't find them to be the end all of gunsighting, really no better than any other well made gun, although they do some very fine machining. Sig seems to be popular with some government agencies, but I would hardly call most of them gunfighters.

Actually I have several friends with more extensive than most real gunfighting experience, and none of them carries a Sig. One carries a BHP in 9mm, very old school, and the others all carry 1911's, even older old school. I spent 4 of my 6 years in the Navy at Little Creek back in the 70's, and there were some pretty bad hombres there that knew how to gunfight. Among those who do this for a living, and have a choice in the matter, many seem to prefer the ancient 1911 simply because it throws a bigger rock and it's worked for the last 100 years.

Personally I carry a BHP in .40 which is not on your list, so I don't really have a dog in this particluar fight.

 

[chieftain]

The thing is, they are all proven performers, some are just "packaged" better then others. I carry either a CZ PCR, CZ75B, or a CZ40B, and have no doubts about the reliability of them over the higher priced brands.

They also give you the option of DA/SA or cocked & locked.

I don't get your drift. What do YOU mean by "packaged" better.

I don't doubt your CZ's are the most reliable sidearms that have ever existed regardless of price.

Options are nice. As long as you do not intermingle them in usage. Sure would be embarrassing and could require a long entry in your Health Record book, if you confused double action with locked and cocked, just as the elephant rounded the corner.

I currently have an XD9 for IDPA and a CZ75 for a barbeque gun, shot a few Sigs but I find the trigger reach to long for my svelte hands. If you can reach the trigger ok any one of them will do, my choices would be:

My short chubby fingers is exactly why I went with SIG. I placed a factory short trigger in all 8 of my SIG's and could comfortably reach the trigger in all of them. Except the 225/P6. The 225/P6 was short enough for me without the short trigger.

XD - decent trigger, reasonable accuracy, incredibly simple take down and cleaning, reasonable cost, and I really like the grip safety.

Why do you like the grip safety. That is the safety that many, very experienced 1911 shooters pin so as to be inoperable. I do not. I don't understand why the Croats put that grip safety in the weapon.

JMB put it in because that was what the Army specified in their design request. It wasn't JMB's idea.

CZ - Carried cocked and locked a decent pistol, Im not a fan of their double action pulls unless you have a good gunsmith work on it.

Sig - Absolutely nothing wrong with them, they just don't fit me at all. But I don't find them to be the end all of gunsighting, really no better than any other well made gun, although they do some very fine machining. Sig seems to be popular with some government agencies, but I would hardly call most of them gunfighters.

Well, I have several friends in one of those government "agencies" in fact the one you served 6 years in, that had a lot of practice in real life fire fights. I would love for you to tell them that they are hardly gunfighters. I guess their purple hearts and such, don't mean squat to you because their issue side arm is and in some cases was a SIG 226 in 9mm.

I believe their purple hearts are just as real and descriptive of their experince in a "few" firefights and as meaningful as my own.

Your argument RE: they, SIG's, don't fit is your best argument though. Number one is reliability, number two is have the weapon fit you, not you the weapon, if at all possible and when you have a reasonable choice

Actually I have several friends with more extensive than most real gunfighting experience, and none of them carries a Sig. One carries a BHP in 9mm, very old school, and the others all carry 1911's, even older old school. I spent 4 of my 6 years in the Navy at Little Creek back in the 70's, and there were some pretty bad hombres there that knew how to gunfight. Among those who do this for a living, and have a choice in the matter, many seem to prefer the ancient 1911 simply because it throws a bigger rock and it's worked for the last 100 years.

I might have run into you at little Creek in the 70's. Although I wasn't in the Navy, and only spent an occasional week or so passing through.

I know in country, I was always impressed by those dudes wearing girl scout hats. They always had/wore a Rollex, Hi power, and a short stubby Matty Mattel or other exotic weaponry. I always liked the Hi power, only have two myself though.

And as I write this, one of my 9, 1911's is sitting on my hip. Just for the record.

Personally I carry a BHP in .40 which is not on your list, so I don't really have a dog in this particluar fight.

Interesting, I usually recommend the caliber the weapon was designed in with notable exception. I do know that particular weapon & caliber was the reason the FBI HRT gave up the BHP for the 1911 in 45acp about a decade ago. That is the reason only two of my SIG', were not in 9mm.

But of the weapons this thread was about, I would choose the SIG. Would I have a problem if I was required to carry either of the other weapons, no. But, given the choice, the SIG would be a no brain'er.

Caliber isn't very important within reason. Choose good bullets and be able to place them where they need to be under fire.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[boogalou]

I don't get your drift. What do YOU mean by "packaged" better.

Only that CZUB, being under soviet domination for over 40 years, probably doesn't have as good a grasp of the free market as Sig has enjoyed over the same time period, and don't realize that many American consumers equate value with price. I don't know how many times in the past I read comments by folks who considered CZ products to be "cheap" because they didn't cost as much as their competitors. When the CZ40B first came out at around $300, a lot of people wanted to know what was wrong with them. That is starting to change now, as CZ prices are steadily increasing as they become more popular, so perhaps marketed would have been a better word then packaged.

Options are nice. As long as you do not intermingle them in usage.

I totally agree with you, which is why I carry DA, and was one of the reasons why I decided to sell all my 1911's. But the fact remains, the option is there, and allows the 1911 owner the choice of a quality 9mm handgun without compromising his mode of carry.

 

[RNB65]

My XD40 has been 100% reliable and very accurate from the day I bought it a couple of years ago. However, I'd go with the Sig from the choices listed.