.40 S & W for Black Bear

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F-11 john Do some search's. A hunter was calling for elk last year. A grizzly jumped him, and started on racking and bitting on him. His hunting buddy was armed with a bow. he placed an arrow in the heart of a the grizzly as it was working his buddy over and killed the grizzly. Its somewhaere in this forum. At the time a recurve bow hunter killed a record for grizzly shot with a 90lb bow at 25 feet. bear run 50yards and fell over dead.

If you hunted you might have better understanding just how deadly a bow can be. When you can shot an arrow throw a deerwith a 45lb bow and all it does is spin's around not knowing what happens and falls die when with 20 feet that pretty deadly
 
I actually carry a g27 in .40 for bears. Well, ok it's mostly for the bad people. But I do run into black bears often. Honestly though one really dose not need to worry much about black bears. Try pepper spray before bullets! If you must carry a .40 for bears then use 180g FMJ's. JHP's are not going to hold together very well in a bear. Also have you thought of swapping mags/barrels and going to 357 sig?
 
If you hunted you might have better understanding just how deadly a bow can be. When you can shot an arrow throw a deerwith a 45lb bow and all it does is spin's around not knowing what happens and falls die when with 20 feet that pretty deadly
Hardluk, I never should have said 'never' regarding brown bear bow hunting, but I think you would agree that black bear bow hunting and brown bear bow hunting are in two different leagues, which was my point.

In Michigan thousands of hunters take to the woods black bear bow hunting. I don't think there are similar numbers of brown bear bow hunters.
 
It can be and has been done w/ a .40. I've even done a coup de grace on a brown bear with one on a DLP kill. But I was directly behind it, my shot to the brain pan was perpendicular and I only had skin and skull to punch through at about 6 feet.

If it were me, I'd choose the revolver, but hey that's just me.
 
Dick Metcalf article...

Lots of opinions about Bears and handguns.

Dick Metcalf wrote an article a few years ago about one of the top Black Bear hunting guide service in the world. The guide service is called Foggy Mountain something or other. They've won two international dangerous game guide awards. They specialize in black bear hand gun hunting. If do a yahoo search for "black bear hunting 200 grain", you can read the article for yourself. These folks have shot hundreds of Black Bears of all sizes. In the opinion of this hunting guide service, a non-expanding 200 grain, 40 caliber bullet at 1000 fps is adequate for any black bear. They would know.
 
Hardluk, I never should have said 'never' regarding brown bear bow hunting,

I just KNEW a thread with "black bear" in the title would turn to Alaska before it was over. :rolleyes:

Sure, .40 has about as much pop as light .357 loads in 3" barrels...500ft lbs or a bit more. A black bear is not armor plated. I mean, I prefer a 4" revolver, but I cannot say a .40 is not enough for Smoky.
 
I just KNEW a thread with "black bear" in the title would turn to Alaska before it was over. :rolleyes:

Sure, .40 has about as much pop as light .357 loads in 3" barrels...500ft lbs or a bit more. A black bear is not armor plated. I mean, I prefer a 4" revolver, but I cannot say a .40 is not enough for Smoky.

Ok from now on if your have any questions about hogs, black bears, or groundhogs, automatically divert to the nearest grizzly bear thread.

I think I will agree with you on this one. Black bears are almost never dangerous to begin with.
 
I carried my G 23 in Colorado hiking with my son in black bear country. We saw footprints but no bear. Glad nothing bad happens.
 
A few years ago a vacationing NYS LEO camping at Marcy Dam in the Adirondacks shot and killed ra black bear coming into his lean to using a 40. I do not have access to the link but it can be googled. It was approx 3 years ago
 
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I love it when some one want's to know if a 357 or a 45acp and or a 40S&W is good enough for bears. I wonder if these same people would say a 380 or a 38sp is to small for defense on humans.
NOT TRYING TO START A FIGHT. I just think it is funny.
 
I have backpacked in black bear country carrying a Glock 23 and a mag of Doubletap's hot FMJ load. Never needed it, but I felt it was a good balance of weight of firearm to power of cartridge.
 
I can't remember which, but either Double Tap Ammo or Buffalo Bore Ammo makes a 200 gr hard cast flat nose that was developed for backwoods use.
 
I hike in black bear/lion country a lot. I tend to carry my 2.5" SP101 in the "bearish" woods and my glock 27 with duty rounds in the desert (lion) areas. Even though the .357 is loaded with 180g lead flat points, I do wonder at times if 10 .40 rounds would be better on a bear...

When I hike with the wife, kid, and dumb dog, I do feel better with my blackhawk .45.

Guess I can't make up my mind.
 
I love it when some one want's to know if a 357 or a 45acp and or a 40S&W is good enough for bears. I wonder if these same people would say a 380 or a 38sp is to small for defense on humans.
NOT TRYING TO START A FIGHT. I just think it is funny.
Here is my unofficial survival guide to the forum:

1. Everyone that will ever consider robbing you is a 250 lb bodybuilding crackhead with an insatiable thirst for blood and damn near bulletproof skin. Only bullets starting with a .4, revolver calibers containing the word magnum, or 12 guage shotguns will do.

2. All firearms are bought for the purpose of defense or SHTF situations. Even if you specifically state that it is for target practice (aka plinking), somebody will bring up tactical use, concealed carry, and "stopping power" at some point in the thread.

3. Zombies are no joke, it can and WILL eventually happen. You're either prepared or you're undead, pick one.

4. Will this caliber kill (insert animal) will result in answers about grizzly bears. It is inevitable.

5. Zinc guns will not last 1k rounds before flying apart and blowing off your hand. Everyone has had a buddy who knew a guy who had an uncle that blew his hand off with a J22 and can now only drive an automatic.

6. If you don't know about something, fake it till you make it.

7. Almost everyone around here can shoot the ass off of a fly at 100 yards firing offhand during a blizzard that came during a freak sandstorm. Accept it.
 
Here is my unofficial survival guide to the forum:

1. Everyone that will ever consider robbing you is a 250 lb bodybuilding crackhead with an insatiable thirst for blood and damn near bulletproof skin. Only bullets starting with a .4, revolver calibers containing the word magnum, or 12 guage shotguns will do.

2. All firearms are bought for the purpose of defense or SHTF situations. Even if you specifically state that it is for target practice (aka plinking), somebody will bring up tactical use, concealed carry, and "stopping power" at some point in the thread.

3. Zombies are no joke, it can and WILL eventually happen. You're either prepared or you're undead, pick one.

4. Will this caliber kill (insert animal) will result in answers about grizzly bears. It is inevitable.

5. Zinc guns will not last 1k rounds before flying apart and blowing off your hand. Everyone has had a buddy who knew a guy who had an uncle that blew his hand off with a J22 and can now only drive an automatic.

6. If you don't know about something, fake it till you make it.

7. Almost everyone around here can shoot the ass off of a fly at 100 yards firing offhand during a blizzard that came during a freak sandstorm. Accept it.

One more thing to add: Bad grammar, mispellings, and lack of punctuation are more often than not going to occur. You don't have to like it, just accept it as part of the Internezt.
 
One more thing to add: Bad grammar, mispellings, and lack of punctuation are more often than not going to occur. You don't have to like it, just accept it as part of the Internezt.
Yeah but that is not so much a forum rule as it is a general Internet rule. I thought this was common knowledge by now. Lol.
 
Here is my unofficial survival guide to the forum:

1. Everyone that will ever consider robbing you is a 250 lb bodybuilding crackhead with an insatiable thirst for blood and damn near bulletproof skin. Only bullets starting with a .4, revolver calibers containing the word magnum, or 12 guage shotguns will do.

2. All firearms are bought for the purpose of defense or SHTF situations. Even if you specifically state that it is for target practice (aka plinking), somebody will bring up tactical use, concealed carry, and "stopping power" at some point in the thread.

3. Zombies are no joke, it can and WILL eventually happen. You're either prepared or you're undead, pick one.

4. Will this caliber kill (insert animal) will result in answers about grizzly bears. It is inevitable.

5. Zinc guns will not last 1k rounds before flying apart and blowing off your hand. Everyone has had a buddy who knew a guy who had an uncle that blew his hand off with a J22 and can now only drive an automatic.

6. If you don't know about something, fake it till you make it.

7. Almost everyone around here can shoot the ass off of a fly at 100 yards firing offhand during a blizzard that came during a freak sandstorm. Accept it.
hilarious. sadly this is not far from the truth at all. no matter how specific the question are how directly the hypothetical situations are laid out, someone always misreads the post and the entire thread gets hijacked.
 
.40 S&W, .45 ACP and 9mm for bear, brown or black is just fine. Not to mention that handguns in those calibers provide excellent fire power potential, up to 20 rounds in 9mm. Bears aren't bullet proof. They aren't made out of kevlar or steel plate, just ask any big game bow hunter. Shoot what you can handle and use a solid well made round that will provide good penetration, don't be afraid of FMJ ball ammo (there's a reason why dangerous game hunters use solid bullets).

Stay aware of your surroundings and should a gizz ever want to sit you down and discuss picking his teeth with one of your ribs, give him 20 rounds of 9mm FMJ to chew on first and then get back to you on that.
 
.40 S&W, .45 ACP and 9mm for bear, brown or black is just fine. Not to mention that handguns in those calibers provide excellent fire power potential, up to 20 rounds in 9mm. Bears aren't bullet proof. They aren't made out of kevlar or steel plate, just ask any big game bow hunter. Shoot what you can handle and use a solid well made round that will provide good penetration, don't be afraid of FMJ ball ammo (there's a reason why dangerous game hunters use solid bullets).

Stay aware of your surroundings and should a gizz ever want to sit you down and discuss picking his teeth with one of your ribs, give him 20 rounds of 9mm FMJ to chew on first and then get back to you on that.

No offence man, but that has to be some of the absolute worst advice out there. None of those calibers are even NEAR what is needed to penetrate the skull/shoulder of a brown bear. 20 rounds of 9mm at a brown bear? No you just have a ticked off bear that suddenly likes the taste of human to wash down that nasty lead taste.

Now the conversation was about black bear, sooooooooooooooo lets reiterate some main points:

  • Black bear are easily intimidated. Walking loud is usually enough to keep them away, if they do show up they are 99.99% of the time just curious and making lots of noise will scare them away.
  • Black bear are 85% vegetarian and just want an easy meal. When camping, keep your food away from camp and don't scarf down that candy bar you snuck into the tent.
  • Black bears do not have a huge build, but they aren't light either. 400-500lbs is about the average weight of these guys, yet the biggest bad guy that's going to take your wallet is 300lbs (and right about then is when you wish you had brought something bigger than that .380 :neener:
 
You're more likely to die in an auto accident driving to the site. Anything you're familiar with will provide peace of mind.
 
@Ranger30-06: You know what they say about opinions? Everybody has one...

I'm not giving advise, just saying what will get the job done. 9mm will do it just fine. And I can appreciate your "opinion" on the subject; I can read ballistics tables, adventure novels and let my imagination run wild too (scary bear in woods, better bring a bazooka).

Alaskan Inuit have used AR-15s on black bears and brownies for years. Canadian Metis have used the old .303 Brit on Polars for almost a century. And the fact of the matter is that the 2nd largest bear killed on record was taken by an old native woman using a .22lr for self defense with a single shot to the bear's head.

Black Bears aren't bullet proof. They aren't made out of kevlar or steel plate. A .40 S&W will do the job.

The Alaska State Troops have used the Glock 22 in .40 for years. Wonder what a .40 will do to a black bear? Here it is...

Alaska State Trooper vs. Black Bear

Bella Twin with her record bear kill

Bella Twin and her record grizzly bear

1953 record bear killed with 22lr
 
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.40 S&W stops Brown Bear Charge...


By DOUG O'HARRA
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: May 25, 2004)

Frank Bettine was walking his dog in the thick forest near his Rabbit Creek-area home about 9 p.m. Saturday when he heard a sound that raised the hair on the back of the neck.

The distinct snap of a branch in seemingly empty woods.

"I thought it was a moose," he said later. "Then I heard a woof."

Bettine's eyes locked with those of a brown bear standing alert about 30 yards uphill through newly leafed alder. In the second or two it took the bear to explode downhill, Bettine had time to slip a .40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol from his belt and take aim.

When the bear pivoted around a log about 20 feet away and showed no sign of stopping, Bettine fired one shot. The bear whirled and bolted back uphill.

Bettine called his dog, an English setter named Bearsheba, and retreated a few hundred yards to his home, northeast of Goldenview Drive and Rabbit Creek Road.

But the story, a glimpse of life and death among Anchorage's urban wildlife in spring, doesn't end there.

Unsure whether he had wounded the bear, Bettine called 911. Two Anchorage police officers returned with him to investigate, using a thermal imaging device that detects heat from living things. They ended up facing a furious charge by the same bear about 10:30 p.m. Officers Chris Mueller and Bradley Clark killed it with multiple shots from a Remington 870 shotgun and a .45-caliber pistol.

The three men worked until midnight hauling the carcass to a road with Bettine's four-wheeler. Then came another twist: volunteers salvaging the carcass for charity confirmed it was a sow that had been actively nursing.

So on Sunday, Bettine and his wife and neighbors searched the woods south of the Rabbit Creek. They wanted to find any cubs before it was too late.

An attorney and electrical engineer who has lived in the same Hillside home since 1984, Bettine has walked the same trails almost every day for years and loves living near wildlife. Bears had always run from him in the past. He didn't want any of them to die.

"Well, heck, I didn't want the cubs to starve to death," he said. "I was depressed enough to have to shoot the bear. If we can save the cubs, I want to do it."

On Sunday evening, Bettine found the cubs, up near the top of a tall spruce. Beneath the tree was another remarkable find: Duff and grass were torn up and rumpled, showing where the sow had scratched up a bed for herself and her offspring. It was only a few hundred yards from a suburban back yard with a swing set and children's toys.

The shredded carcass of a tiny moose calf lay in a hole, almost totally consumed. Blackened scat was piled nearby.

The incident began to make more sense. The sow had tucked her cubs into this dim refuge beneath alders and new devil's club, took down a meal, and defended the scene to her death.

"This was a double dose. Not only was it a brown bear, she had food and cubs," Bettine said. "It's the worst combination you could have."

This first confirmed bear kill of the season in Anchorage offered another warning that bears are now abroad in search of easy food and newborn moose calves.

"This is not a good time of year to be crashing through the brush," said state biologist Rick Sinnott, with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

People need to make noise and avoid dense forest, added Chugach State Park Chief Ranger Mike Goodwin. "This is the worst time, really. The moose calves are being dropped right now, and they're such a target for these bears."

On Monday morning, Chugach rangers investigated a report that a bear was eating a calf near the Glen Alps parking area. They have been monitoring a black bear harassing two sets of moose twins and their mothers in the McHugh Creek picnic area.

"That black bear has been on the campground hosts' car, scratching the dickens out of the roof," Goodwin said. "We've been down there three mornings trying to pop it (with bean bags) and get it out of there, but we keep missing it."

Other bears have been reported around town; a black bear fed along Campbell airstrip one evening last week. But a young brown bear that had been raiding garbage in neighborhoods near Eagle River has not been seen for more than a week. Sinnott worried someone had killed that bear.

On Sunday night Sinnott and assistant state biologist Jessy Coltrane checked on the cubs Bettine found. The cubs hugged the spruce trunk, about 60 to 70 feet above the ground, swaying in gusting winds. There was no way to get them down, Sinnott said.

Given the location, these cubs and their mother were almost certainly the same three animals that people had been reporting over the past two weeks, meandering out of Far North Bicentennial Park and across the Anchorage Hillside, Sinnott said. The sow was last reported near Huffman and Elmore roads on Friday night and probably moved to this location within a day of charging Bettine.

Under the circumstances, Sinnott said Bettine had little choice but to fire.

"It was totally justified," he said. "I probably would have done the same thing."

If the cubs can be found, they will be taken to the Alaska Zoo and held for adoption to a facility in the Lower 48, Sinnott said.

"He's welcome to bring them here," said zoo director Tex Edwards. "There's a good chance that either there's already a place for them or we'll find a place."

On Monday morning, Sinnott and Coltrane found that the cubs had disappeared. On Monday afternoon, the biologists returned with bear expert Sean Farley; still no sign.

If people see the cubs, they should call state Fish and Game. Don't try to pick them up, Sinnott said.

"That would be like grabbing onto the business end of a chain saw," he said. "They might look cute, but they won't be happy if someone grabs them."

On Monday afternoon, Bettine visited the site of the bear bed and walked the trail. He watched carefully when Bearsheba strained at the leash, as though something was off in the woods.

As a gentle rain began to fall on the lush green woods, Bettine studied the forest through binoculars and scanned the spruce trunk to its crown.

"They've got to be out there somewhere," he said.
 
AR-15 Kills Polar Bear in Interior Alaska...


Polar bear killed near village in Interior Alaska
By Mary Beth Smetzer

Published Friday, March 28, 2008

A polar bear wandering around the outskirts of the Interior village of Fort Yukon, 250 miles inland from its normal coastal habitat, was spotted eating lynx carcasses Thursday morning and was killed later in the day because of safety concerns.

The bear was first spotted outside a cabin on the edge of town by Peter John, said Tony Carroll, who had recently been skinning lynx at the cabin.

Most people didn’t believe him, Carroll said, but as word spread around town, more than a half dozen hunters began tracking the bear.

Zeb Cadzow, maintenance director at the Council of Athabascan Tribal Government, took off work after lunch to join in the hunt.

“There’s usually grizzly around this time of year,” he said. “You want to get rid of it because it’s hungry.”

The men tracked the bear three miles out of town to the Porcupine River, where it moved onto a river island.

At that point, most of the hunters returned to Fort Yukon for a sled dog race, leaving Cadzow, 30, and Paul Herbert, 60, to continue the hunt.

“We assumed we were chasing a grizzly bear,” Herbert said.

Cadzow concurred, thinking the white description meant it was an albino bear or a grizzly covered in frost.

While Herbert waited at one end of the island, Cadzow, on foot, went into the brush tracking the bear.

Suddenly, the bear came out from under a brush pile about 10 yards away. It charged straight at Cadzow, who was carrying an AR-15, a rifle similar to the U.S. Army’s M-16.

The encounter was so close, Cadzow said, he didn’t have time to lift and sight the rifle.

“I shot from the hip, seven or eight times,” he said. “If I had gotten it to my shoulder, it (bear) would have been on top of me. It happened so quick, by the time it was down, it was about 10 feet from my feet.”

According to the hunters, the young female bear appeared to be in good health and wasn’t starving.

The hunters contacted the Department of Fish and Game in Fairbanks on Thursday and are delivering the hide and head today so biologists can have a closer look at the bear. It will be sent to the Marine Mammal division of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for further study.

After perusing some photographs Thursday evening, Dick Shideler, a Fish and Game wildlife biologist who studies North Slope grizzly bears, is in cautious agreement.

“I’m not 100 percent sure, but it sure looks like a polar bear. The ear set looks right, so does the head profile, and the feet look pretty big which is pretty typical (of polar bears),” Shideler said.

“It’s definitely not a grizzly. The only other possibility is a hybrid. I’m leaning pretty far towards polar bear,” he said. “It’s a super interesting bear no matter what it turns out to be.”

The Fort Yukon hunters and the village of more than 900 people are still in a state of disbelief that a polar bear wandered so far south.

“I think all 900 people have been by my house today,” said Cadzow, who spent the rest of Thursday skinning the bear hide.

Townspeople in the Yukon River village have been fielding calls from friends and relatives around the state since word about the polar bear has spread.

“It’s quite a shock to our town,” wrote Bonnie Thomas in an e-mail. “Our oldest elder, Rosalie Joseph, 102, passed away. She must have some powerful medicine to bring a polar bear to us.”
 
Ok hold on a second here. I don't know if I'm missing something here, but not once is the caliber of that AR-15 listed. It can look just like are real deal M16, but that doesn't mean that it's identical. Heck yea I'd take an AR-15, if it was in .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, or .50 Beowulf. That would beat any option I would ever recommend for bear defense.

Secondly, I never said it can't be done, but you sure as heck won't find me backpacking with a .40. There's a difference between using what you have and improvising with the situation, and knowingly going into the woods under gunned where there may be potential trouble.

Lastly, all three of the points I brought up in my last post were facts found from wildlife and camping websites (except for my insert about the bad guy). They may not be wearing "kevlar" or "steel armor," but not all animals are built the same. Each has a different build/body frame/muscle density.
 
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