TTv2
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WestKentucky
Member
Guess I will go ahead and get that camo finish 10mm then
Me too… maybe at Christmas… if I don’t find something else to want more.
Buckeye63
Member
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- Nov 17, 2018
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Guess I will go ahead and get that camo finish 10mm then
Alot of folks .. joke and make fun of Hipoint carbines
I have owned several 9mm one 40 S&W one 45 acp and one 10mm …. All worked great .. I did have magazine problems twice .. Hipoint made it right x2
My brother backed over my well worn used 9mm carbine.. and literally broke the stock on it , bent barrel and receiver ( soft woods dirt) and truck loaded with firewood
I called Hipoint.. they said send it in … 11 days I had a new carbine delivered to my home … with my old carbine serial number on it … with 4 new magazines
Customer service… second to none
One Youtube “ self proclaimed gun expert “ made a joke out of a review… such a dumba$$ ..
he does ammo performance testing with watermelons ,,,
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LiveLife
Member
Deleted - Wrong thread
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The worse thing I have seen when shooting 40 S&W through a 10mm barrel is a build up of carbon in the chamber, which is no different than shooting a lot of 38 Special in a 357 revolver.
And yes straight walled pistol cases do shrink the more you reload them. I have yet to have a problem with that though.
And yes straight walled pistol cases do shrink the more you reload them. I have yet to have a problem with that though.
bangswitch
Member
Where does the brass go, then? It could only get thicker, if it doesn't get longer.
LiveLife
Member
mcb
Member
My 450 Bushmaster gets shorter with each firing but not much. Most of this shorting it caused by case head expansion, given that it's the case head it does not come back with sizing since the sizing dies can't get that far down. If you had a roll sizer you could probably get more of that shrinkage back but that is an expensive machine.
But with pistol cases who even bothers measuring pistol brass for length? I have loaded many tens of thousand of pistol rounds (with 40 S&W being the most reloaded) and I don't think I have ever measured a case for length and I certainly have not trimmed a pistol case.
As for 40S&W in 10mm I have shoot many thousand of rounds of 40S&W in a 10mm without issue but in my case it was a S&W 610 revolver.
But with pistol cases who even bothers measuring pistol brass for length? I have loaded many tens of thousand of pistol rounds (with 40 S&W being the most reloaded) and I don't think I have ever measured a case for length and I certainly have not trimmed a pistol case.
As for 40S&W in 10mm I have shoot many thousand of rounds of 40S&W in a 10mm without issue but in my case it was a S&W 610 revolver.
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bangswitch
Member
Apples and oranges; .38 Spl and .357M are rimmed cases and headspace by the rim, and it has been an accepted practice to shoot .38 Spl. in a .357 ever since the .357 was first released in 1935. It's no different for .44Spl in a .44M. Maybe a bigger issue than extractor damage is failures to fire if the extractor doesn't hold the case against the breech, and an obstructed chamber because the round falls forward, requiring manual extraction. IMO, it's a stupid and unsafe practice to fire rimless cartridges that are too short to properly headspace on the case mouth.
I have to trim my rimless cases very rarely, I admit, and most of those are 10mm from full power loads, but I measure about every 10th-15th case when processing my brass, and they may be maybe 0.002-0.003" shorter at most than max length, but they never seem to progress any shorter than that. OTOH, my rimmed magnum cases do grow with firing (.357 and .41), and usually require a minimal trim by the third firing.
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LiveLife
Member
Yes, rimmed revolver cartridges need to be trimmed if you want consistent "roll crimp" into crimp grooves of bullets. And when roll crimping, case length is less important as long as they are all the same length. And this is not "Handguns: Revolver" subcategory of THR.
But since we are in "Handguns: Autoloaders" subcategory of THR, for straight walled semi-auto pistol cartridges, "taper crimp" is used to allow case mouth to headspace with chamber and once resized case dropped into the barrel shows case rim below barrel hood, finished round's case mouth will no longer headspace off chamber. Instead of tediously measuring each resized case, you can simply chamber check resized cases with barrel hood and discard/recycle shorter cases (As already posted, you will likely not find cases "growing" to see resized case rim to extend above barrel hood).
Going back to OP, question posed was is firing shorter 40S&W that headspaces off extractor in 10mm doable and the short answer is "yes". In the "Handloading & Reloading" subcategory of THR, we have discussed many reloading variables and myth busted/confirmed key reloading variables that primarily affect chamber pressure build/accuracy that are measurable and repeatable. Straight walled semi-auto pistol cases that headspace off case mouth and sorting by longer case length and trimming is not required is the general consensus. As cases are repeatedly reloaded and shortened, they will stop headspacing off case mouth and start headspacing off extractor. If this was a significant factor, all the various gun forums would endorse sorting semi-auto pistol cases by longer resized lengths and discard/recycle the shorter ones but the general reply you will often see is that semi-auto pistol cases are not trimmed and they are shot until case splits or primer pocket gets too loose to hold primers with no concern for cases getting shorter (Unless they are really shorter trimmed 9x19 cases to make into 9x18 cases but these can be quickly identified by lining up the resized cases on bench top).
Firing 40S&W in 10mm is the extreme case of rounds headspacing off extractor and this TTAG article explains in detail why it works - https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/40-in-a-10mm-glock/
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Carl N. Brown
Member
Shooting .40 S&W ammo in a 10mm pistol is not as stupid as shooting .380 ACP ammo in a 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Makarov.
.40 S&W is basically a shortened 10mm.
The difference in case dimension is length: .40 S&W .850 in (21.6 mm); 10mm Auto .992 in (25.2 mm).
Feeding the identical diameter cartridge into the cylindical chamber apparently allows the extractor to grip the cartridge extraction groove fairly consistently for some users, maybe most.
.380 ACP is a loose fit in 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Makarov.
You can have the extractor of a 9mm Parabellum or Makarov pistol fail to grasp the .380 ACP for firing.
While clearing a 9mm Makarov pistol loaded with .380 ACP, I had the extractor slip off the rim and leave the cartridge in the chamber. Yikes.
.40 S&W is basically a shortened 10mm.
The difference in case dimension is length: .40 S&W .850 in (21.6 mm); 10mm Auto .992 in (25.2 mm).
Feeding the identical diameter cartridge into the cylindical chamber apparently allows the extractor to grip the cartridge extraction groove fairly consistently for some users, maybe most.
.380 ACP is a loose fit in 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Makarov.
You can have the extractor of a 9mm Parabellum or Makarov pistol fail to grasp the .380 ACP for firing.
While clearing a 9mm Makarov pistol loaded with .380 ACP, I had the extractor slip off the rim and leave the cartridge in the chamber. Yikes.
bangswitch
Member
I know the difference between .40S&W and 10mm Auto, I shoot and reload both; and 9mm, and .38 Super, and .45 Auto. You forgot shooting .380 and 9mm in a .38 Super, and I see no difference in all of that. If the case is SUPPOSED to headspace on the mouth, then firing it in any gun whose chamber is too long for it to properly headspace as designed, is improper and has potential drawbacks (you mentioned one of them), if not outright dangers. Just because the bullets are the same diameter doesn't make the cartridges interchangeable, at least in the one direction. Is everybody so hard up for ammo they'll do crossover chamberings, stick in anything that fits and give it a whirl? Why not try a .357 Sig in your .40? It's just a necked-down .40S&W case, and the bullet won't get stuck in the barrel, it's only 0.045" smaller than a .40 bullet. You're not going to worry about it not headspacing correctly anyway, and it will fire form to the .40 chamber. Should make for a nice muzzle blast.
Carl N. Brown
Member
^^^ .357 Sig cases are a bit longer than .40 S&W ( by .23 to .51mm) and are especially longer after the shoulder blows out in a .40 S&W or 10mm Auto chamber. Sounds to me that is like a "that or nothing in a life or death emergency" choice. The .045" clearance between groove diameter and bullet implies the extra pressure of the .357 Sig will be vented around the bullet which makes lackurracy of the combo a given. I have been advised that if I got a .357 Sig barrel for my .40 S&W H&K USP to be sure and get a recoil spring rated for .357 Sig.
(I suspect you were kidding about .357 Sig in .40 S&W.)
(I suspect you were kidding about .357 Sig in .40 S&W.)
bangswitch
Member
Of course I was joking, but it seems to be something that those who shoot incorrect cartridges in their guns would think about trying.
I like that term: "lackuraccy"
BLACKHAWKNJ
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- Dec 30, 2007
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It seems to me buying a 40 S&W barrel-like getting a 9MM barrel for a 38 Super-would be the more effective solution.
not picking on you, but you are going to do another "myth buster".
my results of firing seven 45 super cases 30 times vs. once fired cases from the same lot:
you are both right; the fired cases lengthened. the sized cases shortened. starline cases can take a lickin and keep on shootin. the test is using mid-range 45 super loads.
here is the rest of the story:
and if any of you can decipher the load data in the three ring binder, warning - this is 45 super data and should never be fired in a stock 45 acp firearm.
luck,
murf
Riomouse911
Member
Hmmm, I guess I better trade in my case trimmer for a case lengthener then.Only if you are shooting new factory ammunition and reloads with brass that's been reloaded limited number of times. Brass case length gets shorter as reloaded repeatedly which is a well known fact.
As brass case length gets shorter, chambered rounds stop headspacing off case mouth and starts to headspace off extractor (To check, chamber reloaded rounds in barrel. If case base rim is below the barrel hood, the round will headspace off extractor). I don't think reloaders will stop reloading shorter length cases as most of them likely won't know when their brass case length gets short enough to start headspacing off extractor.
As I mentioned in Post #3, use of 10mm-to-40S&W conversion barrel will allow less gas leakage/more consistent chamber pressure build for better accuracy but I do not believe shooting 40S&W in 10mm will damage the firearm. Like shooting .38 Spl in .357 Mag ... No damage, but perhaps more cleaning. (And I shoot copper plated/washed 22LR in my .223 ARs with CMMG conversion bolt ... And no damage, just a bit more cleaning of fouling from blowback action)
I am actually doing a "myth busting" thread on longer vs shorter 9mm cases that no longer headspace off case mouth in the "Handloading & Reloading" subcategory and will post my findings in a new myth busting thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ngth-and-accuracy.901574/page-2#post-12208272
Stay safe.
LiveLife
Member
I thought the same as you until THR members pointed out the fact about semi-auto pistol brass getting shorter as they are repeatedly reloaded and started measuring them myself only to find out ... They were correct.
Riomouse911
Member
Ya, it’s counterintuitive to see straight walled rimless cases shrink when all the other straight walled brass lengthens. 
Stay safe.
Stay safe.
mokin
Member
I have a drop in .40 barrel for my 10mm. Even so, I've shot .40 through the 10mm barrel just to see if I could....
LiveLife
Member
Actually no.Ya, it’s counterintuitive to see straight walled rimless cases shrink when all the other straight walled brass lengthens.
In semi-auto pistol barrels, chamber ID around case neck near case mouth is tighter but more generous towards chamber mouth around case base. When fired, case expands shortening the case length but when resized to smaller OD, shortened length is restored except case base where bottom of resizing carbide ring cannot reach (Unless you roll size). Over time, repeated expansion of case base and not being resized shortens the resized length.
I am currently doing longer vs shorter 9mm case vs accuracy for the Handloading & Reloading subcategory but could include incremental shortening of case length with transition from headspacing off case mouth to extractor to the thread.
stchman
Member
Depends on what firearm it is. I shoot .40S&W out of my GP100 Match Champion 10mm with moon clips. A LOT of people shoot .40S&W out of their Glock 20s with zero issues.
Gordon
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