4064 or 4198 if varget dont perform in 308. Need advice ASAP

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Joshboyfutre

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Pretty simple question here I've been reloading varget in my 308 and I'm not happy with the results so I'm going to switch to either 4064 or 4198. Looking at a powder burn chart it looks like 4064 is closer to varget then 4198 so I'm leaning towards it. Any advice on this desicion? Also wonder if I should go with IMR or Hodgdon. Kinda partial to Hodgden but only because I've used the products w/ muzzle loading and now reloading... In fact I've never used any other companies powder. Use 777 in blackpowder guns and cfe pistol (used to use hp-38 just switched). Any advice will be appreciated but be warned I'm going tomorrow late morning so need to know ASAP... Thanx
 
4064

IMR 4064, I don't think there is a Hodgdon 4064.
I have also had good luck with 4895.
My 308 has a 1 in 10 twist and likes 175 grain bullets. A friends 308 has 1 in 12 and is marginal in stabilizing bullets 175 and heavier, both savages.
 
Perhaps a loading manual should be in your future. You gave no indication of what type of projectiles you're contemplating loading...
 
I like IMR4895, and have a nice load with it. But another one I like that I don't usually see mentioned a lot for 308 is IMR3031
 
IMR is the label on 4064, it's not a Hodgdon labeled powder.

I agree, 4198 is not a good choice in the 308 but I can tell you IMR4064 is one of the best, if not the best powder for loading the 308. It's possible one of the newer Enduron IMR powders can surpass it but I have not tried them.

Just a note, Accurate Powders makes a 4064 and its a close performer to IMR4064.
 
Varget is basically the hodgdon version of 4064

Switching powders will only help accuracy if you alter the pressure curve to find a so called sweet spot with your gun

What exactly are the unsatisfactory results you see? Have you changed seating depth, bullets, tried multiple charge weights, etc.
 
Varget is basically the hodgdon version of 4064

Switching powders will only help accuracy if you alter the pressure curve to find a so called sweet spot with your gun

What exactly are the unsatisfactory results you see? Have you changed seating depth, bullets, tried multiple charge weights, etc.
I can not agree, Varget is nothing like 4064. The technology used to manufacture Varget is different than older powders. It is not temperature sensitive and shares the technology with H50BMG. Varget is made in Australia, IMR4064 is made in Canada
 
Pretty simple question here I've been reloading varget in my 308 and I'm not happy with the results so I'm going to switch to either 4064 or 4198.

If your rifle won't shoot with a 168 gr match bullet and 40.5 grains IMR 4895, then either you are an awful shot, or the rifle is defective.
 
I've gotten almost identical accuracy and speed with 4064, Varget, 4895, and RL15. I choose Varget because it is not affected by temperature changes nearly as much. Any of those should work. But if you're not getting good results from Varget I'd suspect the problem is somewhere other than the powder choice.
 
Varget and RL15 are my preferred 308 powders for 168gr SMKs. Nothing wrong with IMR4064 or H4895 - they work well too. I use BL-C(2) with lighter bullets (150gr).

Echoing what has already been said: what does "don't perform" mean? What were your ammo specs? Varget is usually a great powder.
 
I've had good results with 4064 in a variety of 308 projectiles of varying weights. It's my go-to powder for this application.........
 
Echoing what has already been said: what does "don't perform" mean?

They won't sing and dance?


Also helpful to know what bullet and weight you are loading, and what type action. If it's a bolt gun, I prefer to go a little slower.
 
For years, somewhere between 41 and 44 grains of IMR4064 tested under 1/2 MOA through 300 yards in a given quality barrel in a well built rifle properly tested. In twists from 1:10 to 1:12. Decent barrels will shoot sub MOA through 300 yards with a 5% spread in charge weights across different lots of ammo. Many matches won and records set with it.

IMR4895 was and still is a close second, in my opinion. But it shoots 150's and 155 more accurate through 1:12 and 1:13 twist barrels than IMR4895; so does Varget.

Varget may well duplicate IMR4064's performance with 168's; never shot it my self.

1:12 twist barrels 24" and longer will well stabilize 190's leaving at about 2500 to 2550 fps from .308 Win cases. Shot many of them atop 44 grains of IMR4320 in bolt guns and Garands. Won my share of matches doing so.

That said, if you're judging accuracy on one or two few-shot groups, any load may well shoot a tiny one. If you want a lot of confidence your load's a good one, shoot at least 20 shots per group with each one, then pick the load that shot the smallest one. As there's a 5X or more spread across several few-shot groups and the smallest one's never the first one shot, such tests are not very representative of the ammo's performance for accuracy. Velocity, too, for that matter.

And ball powders are not used for best results by record setters and match winners producing the best results for accuracy.
 
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This is a link to service rifle loadings using a variety of powders (Scroll down to the .308 Winchester loads). The link duplicates Hornady's 9th Edition for the 30-06 Springfield and .308 Winchester loads (Service Rifle). I didn't see any mention of the rifle you are loading for unless I missed it? Gas rifles like the M1A and AR-10 type rifles can be a little more powder sensitive than a standard bolt gun. At least that has been my experience.

Personally for my AR-10 and M1A rifles my powders of choice are IMR-4064, IMR-4895 and AA-2495. I never cared for Varget in those rifles or any powders slower than Varget. The link provides some good load data for the mentioned powders.

Ron
 
Man you guys I'm an idiot I meant to put 4895 not 4198 yes I'm dyslexic
That makes more sense, yes either 4064 or 4895 will be fine in the .308 but I prefer 4064. Either 4895 will do well.

If you can't get Varget to shoot satisfactory in .308, you are assuredly doing something wrong.

I didn't want to say that because anything is possible. Everyone who uses Varget in the 308 swears it is Great! When they can't find any they panic. Since I have so much 4064 and 4895 I have not tried Varget yet in the 308.
 
I can not agree, Varget is nothing like 4064. The technology used to manufacture Varget is different than older powders. It is not temperature sensitive and shares the technology with H50BMG. Varget is made in Australia, IMR4064 is made in Canada
I was speaking of the burn rate.
I guess I did leave that statement a bit open ended.
 
For a short time a while back, I had a Tikka 895 that wouldn't group with 4064, RL15, 4895, or Varget with a 150 or 165gr bullet. Tried a 150gr Nosler B.T. over IMR3031, and got bug holes. Found out by measuring it had a 1/12" twist bbl. Previous owner I knew had reported good accuracy with 168 gr Frderal Match. Not so for me.
Try RL10X or H322 if 4064 or H4895 doesn't work. My favorite in .308 is RL15 and H4895.
 
Tried a 150gr Nosler B.T. over IMR3031, and got bug holes. Found out by measuring it had a 1/12" twist bbl.
My suggestion earlier for 3031, was out of a Winchester model 88, with a 1 in 12 twist.
It really likes Sierra 150 gr bullets. Want to impress your friends? That's the one.

However, my 7.62 service rifle loads all use the IMR4895 to better effect.
 
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