44-40 win
- Thread starter WingZero
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Jim March
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My understanding is that there's a huge "con" in that the proper bore dimension is ALMOST the same as the 44Russian/Special/Magnum family, but not quite. 44Mag and it's ancestors need a .429 barrel. 44-40 needs...lesse, I *think* it's .427 but not certain. Do some googling; if you can't find anything, lemme know 'cuz I recall reading about this not long ago...
Anyways. The inevitable problem is that manufacturers set up "44-40" guns that use the same .429 barrels as their much more popular other 44s. Ruger did this with the 44-40 Vaquero. Which means accuracy sucks and leading is nuts unless you understand what you've really got and handload what amounts to a wildcat by mixing the various specs. In other words, .429 bullets in 44-40 cases and similar adjustments.
If you DO get a "true 44-40 gun", then finding loaded ammo is a pain and scoring pre-cast (or jacketed) bullets in the proper bore (instead of the common .429) is difficult.
All these issues CAN be dealt with but do some research first and realize that it is DEFINATELY a caliber you're going to need to handload for unless you're made o' money.
The advantage: it's a low-pressure bottleneck round that drops easily and cleanly out of single action rounds, and has good accuracy potential when loaded correctly.
My opinion: skip the 44-40 and go with the 38-40. The latter shares most of the same advantages but the bore diameter is the SAME as the modern 40S&W and 10mm rounds (.399 - .400" - this "38" is really a 40). Go find a Ruger Vaquero in 38-40/40S&W convertable. These two calibers are actually capable of sending the same bullets downrange at the same speeds...but the 38-40 operates at lower pressure (bigger case). You then use the 40S&W cylinder for cheap practice, or have it reamed deeper to 10mm and use that as your high-power "woods round" and use the 38-40 for SAS/CASS games where it's reload/unload speed shines when you're reloading against the clock.
38-40 is more popular today than the 44-40 and loaded ammo is more widely available.
Anyways. The inevitable problem is that manufacturers set up "44-40" guns that use the same .429 barrels as their much more popular other 44s. Ruger did this with the 44-40 Vaquero. Which means accuracy sucks and leading is nuts unless you understand what you've really got and handload what amounts to a wildcat by mixing the various specs. In other words, .429 bullets in 44-40 cases and similar adjustments.
If you DO get a "true 44-40 gun", then finding loaded ammo is a pain and scoring pre-cast (or jacketed) bullets in the proper bore (instead of the common .429) is difficult.
All these issues CAN be dealt with but do some research first and realize that it is DEFINATELY a caliber you're going to need to handload for unless you're made o' money.
The advantage: it's a low-pressure bottleneck round that drops easily and cleanly out of single action rounds, and has good accuracy potential when loaded correctly.
My opinion: skip the 44-40 and go with the 38-40. The latter shares most of the same advantages but the bore diameter is the SAME as the modern 40S&W and 10mm rounds (.399 - .400" - this "38" is really a 40). Go find a Ruger Vaquero in 38-40/40S&W convertable. These two calibers are actually capable of sending the same bullets downrange at the same speeds...but the 38-40 operates at lower pressure (bigger case). You then use the 40S&W cylinder for cheap practice, or have it reamed deeper to 10mm and use that as your high-power "woods round" and use the 38-40 for SAS/CASS games where it's reload/unload speed shines when you're reloading against the clock.
38-40 is more popular today than the 44-40 and loaded ammo is more widely available.
Gordon
Member
I shy away from 44-40 because of expensive shells and hard to reload. I LOVE .44spl.
I personally see too many "issues" with the cartridge to own a .44/40, but Mike Venturino really likes it, and tells how to load for it in his book on Colt Single-Actions, which is in his ad in, "Shooting Times". All three of his books on Old West guns are terrific, by the way, and contain data not found elsewhere.
Lone Star
Lone Star
The 44-40 is a powerful cartridge and makes a great combo of rifle and handgun package. As with most older cartidges, handloading is the route to take so either cast your own or request custom sized bullets. Since it's bottle necked it will require extra attention in reloading.
It was the most popular cartidge used in it's day. The 38-40 was underpowered in rifles and the .45 Colt wasn't offered in a rifle for some time.
The only real con to the cartridge is that the firearm and ammo makers gave up on it.
It was the most popular cartidge used in it's day. The 38-40 was underpowered in rifles and the .45 Colt wasn't offered in a rifle for some time.
The only real con to the cartridge is that the firearm and ammo makers gave up on it.
Quantrill
Member
Wingzero,
It seems that the replies thus far are from folks that do NOT own or reload for 44-40Win. Having purchased my first 44-40 during the last year and having reloaded and shot 200something rounds for it, I may speak with some (very little) authority.. The groove dia. for a 44-40 is .427. The groove dia. for a .44spec and 44mag is .429. Most folks who cast and load their own lead bullets prefer .001 to .002 oversize, which for a 44-40 IS .429 dia. The pistol which I purchased will not accept .429 (or even .428) in the cylinder chamber. Only .427 bullets will fit (and they fit "snugly" when pushed by hand through the end of the cylinder. So .427 (at least in my pistol) is the ONLY size bullet that can be loaded. Some folks have complained of crushing brass because the cases are thinner. I have yet to crush a case or ruin a case by any means. The only thing that takes more time is that 44-40, unlike .44spec and .44mag is a bottlenecked case and MUST be lubricated prior to resizing. In 200something rounds that I have shot, I find the accuracy comparable to other pistols of the same type. Cast bullet shooters have known for some time that the most important dimension is that the bullet diameter and the chamber diameter be as close as possible. The cast lead bullet, depending upon hardness, will swage itself down or obturate it self up to the groove diameter of the barrel. I have loaded .44 spec. and .44 magnum for just about 50 years ( the .44 mag was introduced in 1955) and have cast bullets for 40 years. I do NOT find the 44-40 any more indimidating than any other cartridge, maybe just a wee bit more time consuming. Quantrill
It seems that the replies thus far are from folks that do NOT own or reload for 44-40Win. Having purchased my first 44-40 during the last year and having reloaded and shot 200something rounds for it, I may speak with some (very little) authority.. The groove dia. for a 44-40 is .427. The groove dia. for a .44spec and 44mag is .429. Most folks who cast and load their own lead bullets prefer .001 to .002 oversize, which for a 44-40 IS .429 dia. The pistol which I purchased will not accept .429 (or even .428) in the cylinder chamber. Only .427 bullets will fit (and they fit "snugly" when pushed by hand through the end of the cylinder. So .427 (at least in my pistol) is the ONLY size bullet that can be loaded. Some folks have complained of crushing brass because the cases are thinner. I have yet to crush a case or ruin a case by any means. The only thing that takes more time is that 44-40, unlike .44spec and .44mag is a bottlenecked case and MUST be lubricated prior to resizing. In 200something rounds that I have shot, I find the accuracy comparable to other pistols of the same type. Cast bullet shooters have known for some time that the most important dimension is that the bullet diameter and the chamber diameter be as close as possible. The cast lead bullet, depending upon hardness, will swage itself down or obturate it self up to the groove diameter of the barrel. I have loaded .44 spec. and .44 magnum for just about 50 years ( the .44 mag was introduced in 1955) and have cast bullets for 40 years. I do NOT find the 44-40 any more indimidating than any other cartridge, maybe just a wee bit more time consuming. Quantrill
Although I don't presently own one, I did own and shoot one for close to 10 years thru the late 80's into the 90's. I just didn't feel the need to go into such reloading details since the post was about general ideas on the cartidge.
Take care in assuming what others may actually know.
Take care in assuming what others may actually know.
Quantrill
Member
As I said," Folks who DO NOT own or reload". Seems pretty straight forward to me. Quantrill
Josey
member
I have been shooting 44-40 for a few years. I wore out a 44-40 Rossi LA rifle. My Ruger Vaqueros have evolved into excellent shooters. I am a CAS shooter. The 44-40 relading is not an issue. Good brass and proper equipment are all that is needed. I happen to have proper 427 bore Rugers. I have spent some time and a little money accurizing them. I did install Belt Mountain locking base pins also. Wolff spring kit. Recut the forcing cone. New Ajax faux ivory everyday grips. Rosewood factory grips. The load is simply a 200 gr LFN. I went 44-40 because the straight walled (38, 357, 44, 45) cartridges "spit" or blowback hot gases in LA rifles. The bottlenecks (32-20, 38-40, 44-40) don't spit because they obturate and seal the chamber better. The 44-40 can be had in black powder, BP substitutes and smokeless variety. I have enjoyed my 44-40s.
Modern .44-40 is loaded with a .427 bullet and the barrels are usually the same .429 as the other .44 barrels. But the older ammo and guns ran smaller. The old bullet diameter was around .416-418. An old (1893) Colt I miked ran about .418 in the grooves, with .400 as the average land diameter. The chambers throat at about .422.
So for the many, many folks out there who are using mint 1st generation .44-40's for your CAS shooting, be careful to check before using .429 bullets.
Jim
So for the many, many folks out there who are using mint 1st generation .44-40's for your CAS shooting, be careful to check before using .429 bullets.
Jim
farscott
Member
Sounds like my S&W M544. I was surprised to find the cylinder mouths were as tight as they were on my sample. Quite an accurate shooter.
Quantrill
Member
BINGO! Scott, you nailed it right on the head. A S&W544 is what I purchased and had my first experiences with for a 44-40. I have tried to measure the barrel and seem to get conflicting measurements but folks who should know swear it is .429. The 544 gives me accuracy (for my level-low) comparable to my model 29. Quantrill
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