.44 load question

[BBQJOE]

I have loads of .44 special cases, and a fair amount of 240 gr semi wad cutters.
I have been loading them with 6 gr of 321 with good results.

I have a few magnum cases that I loaded per Lyman's suggestion for mag loads and they were way too high for my S&W 629's. The cases expanded way too tight in the cylinder, and were quite difficult to eject.

Anyways, I'm considering loading my .44 spec cases a little hotter, and taking them a bit closer to magnum loads. I only own magnum pistols.
So other than someone getting a hold of my rounds and using them in the wrong gun, does anyone see a problem with this?

 

[Harve Curry]

"So other than someone getting a hold of my rounds and using them in the wrong gun, does anyone see a problem with this?"

Not Me. Just go by the manuals for 44spl data..

 

[Walkalong]

I would not load those .44 Spl brass with anything over Spl data. That way there is no chance of someone shooting an over max .44 Spl load in a .44 Spl gun.

If your .44 Mag loads were difficult to eject, then they are over pressure, or your chambers are rough, but are probably just over max.

What powder and bullet are you loading the .44 Mag brass with?

 

[greyling22]

just keep an eye on pressures, though I do not think it should be a problem. my lee load book lists pressure for 44spl's at around 13000-14000cup and 44mag's around 38000cup. I don't see how you could get into real trouble if you stick pretty close to spl data and keep it in modern magnum guns.

note: I am not a reloading guru.

 

[greyling22]

ditto to walkalong. I missed the part about the cases being tight.

 

[BBQJOE]

I loaded the 44mag cases with 11gr of unique. Lyman suggests a start of 10.8 with a max of 12gr. on a 240 gr bullet.

 

[BP44]

I am sure you know this but if you have shot a bunch of 44 spec out of your revolver it can lead to fouling in the cylinder that will build up at the end of the case line which could lead to sticky ejection of a mag case. clean the cylinder with a good brush and solevent (sp?) and run the low end of the loading data out of you mag cases

 

[BBQJOE]

That might have been part of the problem as well.

 

[rcmodel]

No way 11.0 grains Unique/240 cast bullet in .44 Mag cases should give hard extraction in a Model 29.

I second the opinion that you have massive fouling build-up in the chambers from shooting .44 Spl. in it.

The quick & dirty method of making sure they are perfectly clean is to wrap a wad of 0000 (Extra Fine) steel wool on the end of a cleaning rod section, apply Hoppies #9, and spin it up with an electric drill in each chamber.

A .44 Spl. load I highly recommend is the old classic Skeeter Skelton load.

7.5 Grains Unique under a 240 cast bullet.

While it is over Max in todays lawyer ruled world, it is perfectly safe in any modern .44 Spl. made since WWII, (with the possible exception of the Charter Arms Bulldog) and way safe in any .44 Magnum gun.

It will give around 950 FPS in a 6" gun and is a real pleasure to shoot.

 

[Remo-99]

My thoughts are it's better to use Hot 44special data in 44mag cases or lighter 44mag data in 44mag cases.
Than it is to use hot data for 44special cases, those cases are designed to withhold only a certain pressure.
The gun maybe strong enough for hot 44special loads, but the cases would be the weakest link.

 

[rcmodel]

In fact the .44 Special case is just as strong as any other case. It has been so since they stopped making balloon-head cases 75 years ago. And there never were any balloon-head .44 Special cases anyway, so:

The weakest link in any revolver is always going to be the strength of the cylinder walls over the locking bolt notches.
Not the cases.

Cases do not fail in revolvers, because the cylinder will let go first before case limits are even close to being reached.

Factory .44 Special ammo has always been way under-powered due to the ancient six-guns still floating around that have been chambered for it.

Modern guns, made since WWII, are plenty strong enough to launch a 240 grain lead bullet at 1,000 FPS, as is the brass.

The Skelton 240 @ 950 load I suggested is what the .44 Special could/should have been in the first place.

 

[Walkalong]

Ditto on the cases being more than strong enough for mag pressures.

It's just like heavy "Ruger and Contendor only" .45 Colt loads. Despite the caliber being a low pressure round, the brass is fine, the limiting factor is the gun.

 

[Slamfire]

That blasted lead ring is the reason I stopped shooting 38 Spls and 44 Spls in magnum pistols.

You want a good 44 Spl load in your magnum, try 8.5 grains Unique with a 240 L in 44 Magnum brass. If that is too hot, go to 7.5 grains Unique.

I have a M629-4 that has extra tight chamber mouths. Because of the tight mouths it gives higher velocities with my loads. My 8.5 grs Unique load is going right at 1000 fps in my revolver. It should have been going closer to 900 fps.

Still, the 8.5 gr Unique load was accurate and it was powerful.

 

[wanderinwalker]

I'd give the chambers a good scrubbing first.

Second, if you want full-snort .44 loads, switch to Win 296 or H110. I've always had good luck with 296 in my guns, when pushing 240gr jacketed hollowpoints.

Third, if you want something equal to a stout .44 Special load, try loading 8-8.5gr of Win 231 in your Magnum cases and seating a 240gr SWC on top. My 6" 629 gives easy extraction with this load, good accuracy, and about 950-970 fps average speed. This is below any starting load I can find, but higher than the cowboy loads I've seen.

As a side question, does anybody know how long it will take to wear out .44 Magnum cases when loading to ~1000 fps with 240gr bullets?

 

[mbkmkk]

As a side question, does anybody know how long it will take to wear out .44 Magnum cases when loading to ~1000 fps with 240gr bullets?

A long time!

I have some cases I have reloaded at least 20 or more times at 1000 fps, using med to slow powders.

 

[Remo-99]

The weakest link in any revolver is always going to be the strength of the cylinder walls over the locking bolt notches.
Not the cases.

For sure, in revolvers Rcmodel, I was just refering, in general to the cartridge cases themselves(which are chambered in rifles also).

44spl was designed in the early 1900's to operate at pressures of around 13,000 due to strength of the revolvers at that time.
Whilst the 44mag designed around 40-50 years later with improvements in metal strengthening in revolvers, can run at pressures of 38,500.

And another pistol round, that contradicts my own statements, would be the 44auto mag. Based on a cutback 308win rifle case, designed to run at rifle pressures, exceeding the pressures of the pistol it was chambered for.(there's always exceptions to the general rule)

Even if modern 44spl have the same wall thickness at the case base as 44mag brass, there are other issues aswell, like the shorter case.

That blasted lead ring is the reason I stopped shooting 38 Spls and 44 Spls in magnum pistols.

The very same reason I no longer use 38spl & 44spl brass in mag chambers.(Besides 357mag & 44mag oncefired brass is so plentiful, anyways).

murfy's law indicates if there is any chance something can fail, then it will, at some time.

 

[joneb]

Is there any powder better than Unique for Max performance in a .44 spl ? It's a love hate thing for me, the stuff does not meter well in my powder throw and when loading at the upper end I weigh each charge but I can't find a suitable replacement could Ramshot's True Blue be the answer

 

[Walkalong]

I used to load 240 Gr lead with a healthy dose of SR-4759, but it is not something I can recommend.

True Blue is a good powder and would be worth a try, but it may be a bit slow. Something more in the middle should work better. It operates at such low pressures, the fast powders will get you 90% + of what you want.

I have some Speer data with Gold Dots at home I could post later. If I remember right, none of the powders they used were even remotely slow.

 

[RidgwayCO]

jibjab, I've also been looking into this "max performance" .44 Special question. QuickLOAD indicates that VihtaVuori N105 might be the best powder for such a hunting load. I'm tracking some down now to test it out. Will let you know if it pans out.

 

[Walkalong]

From Speer Lab Notes 2004

200 Gr Gold Dot loaded at 1.490 in .44 Special in a Cimarron 5.5" SAA with a CCI 300 primer

Power Pistol 7.6 Grs for 872 FPS - 8.6 Grs for 976 FPS

Viht N350 8.0 Grs for 823 FPS - 8.8 Grs for 952 FPS

Universal 7.0 Grs for 842 FPS - 7.6 Grs for 950 FPS

AA # 5 8.8 Grs for 805 FPS - 9.9 Grs for 935 FPS

700X 5.3 Grs for 800 FPS - 6.1 Grs for 902 FPS

Titegroup 5.3 Grs for 795 FPS - 6.1 Grs for 902 FPS

W-231 6.0 Grs for 730 FPS - 6.9 Grs for 886 FPS

Bullseye 5.1 Grs for 766 FPS - 5.9 Grs for 884 FPS

Red Dot 5.4 Grs for 801 FPS - 5.9 Grs for 868 FPS

Unique 7.0 Grs for 788 FPS- 7.8 Grs for 855 FPS

AA # 2 Imp 5.2 Grs for 725 FPS - 5.9 Grs for 828 FPS

American Select 5.0 Grs for 723 FPS - 5.7 Grs for 821 FPS

I double checked my typing, but remember, double check any data with a good load book.

N350 was second fastest. True Blue is close to it in burn rate. It will certainly be worth a try alright, especially since it sounds like you have some already. AC

 

[joneb]

Thanks Walkalong, Power Pistol looks good but I hear it has quite a flash N340 and N350 are on the short list.

QuickLOAD indicates that VihtaVuori N105 might be the best powder for such a hunting load.

I did not see any load data with this powder on the VV web sight, I'd like to know how this pans out for you, thanks.
My interests are for target and protection, my only 44 spl for now is a S&W 696.

 

[RidgwayCO]

jibjab, if you're looking for a personal protection round in .44 Special, I think you'd be hard pressed to beat the Speer 200gr GDHP over either Power Pistol or 3N37, especially in your 696's 3" barrel.

My tests indicate that the Lee Pro Auto Disk's .82cc chamber gives 9.1gr of 3N37, and the .71cc chamber gives 7.8gr of Power Pistol. With a COL of 1.480", CCI 300 large pistol primers, and a 4" S&W 624, either load gives 900+ fps. The 3N37 has little or no flash, but the Power Pistol definitely "lights up your life..."

For personal defense practice loads and target use, my S&W 696 is very accurate with an Oregon Trail 200gr LRNFP at the same 900 fps. For these lead bullet loads I use either N330 or N340.

My .44 Special hunting loads are planned using a 255gr Leadheads Keith bullet over a generous amount of N105. These will probably be slightly in excess of SAAMI standards, but will only be shot in either a Freedom Arms 1997 5.5" or a S&W 624 6.5". Colorado has these darn "minimum energy" standards...

Hope this helps.

 

[BBQJOE]

I really appreciate all the responses and the recipes.
I think I will work up a few handfuls using the power pistol formula and the heavier Unique as well, and see how it goes.