.44 Magnum Competitors?

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SwampWolf

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Anybody know of a .44/.45 caliber factory cartridge, past or present, that is/was the ballistic equivalent (in terms of velocity, energy, bullet weight, etc.) of the .44 Magnum cartridge when fired from a rifle barrel measuring 18" long or so?
 
A few of the old black powder rifle rounds have similar performance to the 44 Magnum:

56-46 Spencer
44 Wesson Extra Long
44 Ballard Extra Long
45-60 Winchester
 
They're not related, insofar as I know. But many of us visit both sites (and many others) and occasionally pose the same question to address different audiences.
 
Are TFL and THR related somehow?
Historic artifact only. TFL shut down briefly in 2002 or thereabouts, and many migrated over to THR. When TFL started up again, many of us went back. So they are related more by history and shared membership than anything else.
 
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I'm not so much interested in which cartridge "out-performs" another so much as I'm interested in ".44/45 caliber factory" cartridges that are ballistically "equivalent" to each other when fired from a carbine/rifle length barrel. I'm of the opinion at this point in time that rifles like the Ruger Model 77/44 (or lever-action rifles so chambered) are fairly unique in their potentials and capabilities in terms of other factory loaded, .44/.45 caliber firearms (the .41 Magnum might come close if it was ever chambered in a rifle). I'm also curious about jmorris's thought concerning the .460 Rowland.
 
Historically the 44-40 and the 30-30 have been the worlds two most successful deer cartridges. Both out of a 16/18 inch barrel are close to comparable to the 44/45's ballistics and range. Slow heavy round nosed slugs have proven their ability to take large game by penetrating deep into the vitals and at times clean through side to side without tearing up anywhere near as much good meat as a modern day hollow point.
 
Gabbet-Fairfax Mars Automatic Pistol
The Mars pistol was a development of the turn of the century that would really be more at home in a Jules Verne novel (I would suggest the title “One Thousand Footpounds in a Handgun”) than in the real world. It was a massive handgun, ridiculously powerful, and marvelously complex. It lasted only for a short time, with the first production prototype made by Webley in 1898 and production ceasing by 1907.
 
Historically the 44-40 and the 30-30 have been the worlds two most successful deer cartridgest.


With re to the 30-30 folks say this all the time with no evidence to back it up. The subject has been discussed here at length and for various economic and environmental reasons it's doubtful this is true
 
there are some lever actions running around in 41mag. have fun running one down for a decent price though.
 
I'm not so much interested in which cartridge "out-performs" another so much as I'm interested in ".44/45 caliber factory" cartridges that are ballistically "equivalent" to each other when fired from a carbine/rifle length barrel. I'm of the opinion at this point in time that rifles like the Ruger Model 77/44 (or lever-action rifles so chambered) are fairly unique in their potentials and capabilities in terms of other factory loaded, .44/.45 caliber firearms (the .41 Magnum might come close if it was ever chambered in a rifle). I'm also curious about jmorris's thought concerning the .460 Rowland.

I'm still a bit confused on what you're looking for. And perhaps why you're looking for such information.

On the surface it seems pretty easy. Since the commonly used bullet weights for both calibers share some common weights it comes down to both shooting at the same velocity for such situations. The common .44Mag load with a 240gn bullet is close enough to the commonly used .45Colt 250gn bullet that if both are shot at the same muzzle velocity then both will have the same hitting power. From there you get down to how close a match does it need to be. Some will say that the 10/250=4% difference counts for something.

Some will say that the marginally better BC values for the smaller diameter .429 bullet counts for something. Yet others will go on about the shapes and how much the meplate area differences count for something in terms of hunting take down DRT results. And that will likely result in a discussion on how the standard method of measuring ft-lbs of kinetic energy relates/does not relate (pick a side? :D) to real world hunting results. It all becomes fairly confusing at that point.

So the comparison comes down to how picky you want to be. Are you looking for casual real world matchups that are within around 10 to 15% of being equal or are you looking for <5% near laboratory match ups?

Either way a quick look at the rifle section data from my Lyman's 49th edition shows that if you want to get anywhere near close to .44Mag that you MUST move into the "Ruger Only" data for .45Colt. Otherwise the .44Mag is a clear winner by any standard.

Moving on to the Ruger large frame, TC Contender and Encore only section we see some overlapping and area for matching things up. But even looking at the Ruger, T/C and Freedom Arms listings on the Hodgdon reloading data web site I still don't see the .45Colt matching the .44Mag.

To get numbers where .45Colt matches or beats the .44Mag data we need to move over to some of the ammo examples found on the Buffalo Bore website. At that point I see some handgun loads listed that exceed the RIFLE performance found in the reloading data for .44Mag. How they are doing this when the reloading data does not support this is obviously a trade secret. Duplex loads perhaps? Specialty powder blends?

I know that there are other boutique ammo suppliers as well but I picked the BB source simply as one example.

I know that I haven't, and can't supply you with specific factory ammo examples. But it seems to me that if you're talking about finding "close enough" match ups as opposed to scientifically "exact" match ups that you'll need to look at the specialty higher pressure .45Colt ammo suppliers to match up to the regular .44Mag.

To get closer than "close enough" I'm thinking that you would need to find someone that has tested the ammo examples over a chronograph. And even then they obviously can't use the same rifle. So barrel length differences and bullet to bore fit differences will tend to mask the small differences. If we look around at data it doesn't take long to realize that the condition of different barrels gives a 2 to 5% muzzle velocity difference from the same ammo shot from various rifles. So I would suggest that a 10 to 15% "close enough match up is about as good as you will get. Actual 0% difference matchups could be due simply to a 5% difference in the ammo performance being masked by an offsetting 5% difference in bore friction.
 
The 44mag 45 is what they are. There a limited number of production rifles that can handle the hottest heaviest longest loads for ether and there still in the lower pack for power. Get on with life .

Theres one that can be loaded with 500sw special loads and play with the 44mag and 45 athttp://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog/big-horn-armory-products/model-89-carbine-2/ there hottest.
 
Historically you are talking the 44 Henry rimfire or the 44 WCF/44-40 in terms of ballistics. Modern days, the 44 mag and 45 colt are where it's at for pistol cartridges though there are variations for rifles.
 
I'm still a bit confused on what you're looking for. And perhaps why you're looking for such information.

It's nothing more than curiosity. I'm considering getting a "foul weather" rifle that can be loaded quickly to keep in the "Ram Box" bed section of my Ram pick-up truck. To comply with many state laws, I plan on keeping the ammunition separate (in the cab) from the locked storage compartment and, because I sometimes hunt in Pa where semi-auto rifles are prohibited to hunt with, I began looking at the Ruger 77/44 bolt-action rifle, chambered in .44 Magnum, using a detachable "rotary" magazine and having a synthetic stock and s/s construction. My primary use for the rifle won't be for hunting so much as having relatively quick access to a "legal" in most places firearm "on board" for any occasion that might arise. A "truck gun" so to speak.

As I began exploring my options, it just struck me that rifles chambered in .44 Magnum seem to be in a class of their own (the 44-40 might be the closest in terms of being equivalent in terms of performance) when considering factory-loaded ammunition.

So, again, nothing more than curiosity and I appreciate those who took the time and effort to share their expertise in answering a fairly ambiguous question from my "inquiring mind." :)
 
Ah, I see where you're going now.

What's the weather like in your neck o' the woods?

Up this way in the Great Pacific North "Wet" putting a rifle into the storage box of a truck is a recipe for rust. So if it were me doing this the rifle would be in the cab stored away out of sight and secure while being easy to access. The ammo would be kept in a sealed container in the bed box since it's easier to keep dry.

And I do stress the "easy to access" since lever guns are just too much fun to shoot to limit their use to what a truck gun normally sees. They are pretty much the quintessential plinking gun guaranteed to produce the most grins per shot.... :D

I know that when I think "truck gun" I see a simple and cheap single shot H&R or similar over a lever gun

The insistence on factory loads suggests that you don't reload yet. It's been my finding that anything that starts with a .4 or more is FAR cheaper to reload than to buy. The difference being great enough that it doesn't take more than a few hundred rounds to pay off the initial investment for a modest equipment investment.

Although with the current situation in the US for obtaining components and powder this might not be the best time to start. But keep it in mind.
 
A .44 Magnum out of a rifle is no big deal. Still big bullets going fast, but as to competitors there aren't many handgun cartridges chambered in rifles of any kind. So your options are kind of limited.
I lean towards what BCRider says about the H&R's. MSRP on the Ruger is just under a grand. Kind of pricey for a truck gun.
 
The insistence on factory loads suggests that you don't reload yet.

I've been reloading for well over fifty years now-mostly handguns to support my Bullseye shooting addiction. My "insistence" on comparing factory loads was merely an effort to compare apples with apples. I didn't mean for this to evolve into a "caliber" war or anything else. I was just interested in seeing what's out there (or what was out there) as a matter of inquisitiveness; really, nothing more than that. Thanks for your indulgence in my quest for a bit more knowledge to add to my understanding of all things firearm related.
 
I lean towards what BCRider says about the H&R's. MSRP on the Ruger is just under a grand. Kind of pricey for a truck gun.

If you recall, my purpose for having a somewhat readily accessible firearm was for "any occasion that might arise" (see post no. 21). That occasion might involve self-defense and, if so, I'd probably prefer something more than a single-shot weapon at my disposal. Please keep in mind that I'm just musing over possible scenarios that might influence what I end up deciding on. I would not arbitrarily rule out a "cheap single-shot H&R" at this point in time.

MSRP on the Ruger is just under a grand.

MSRP is one thing. "Street" prices are another. I can get the Ruger Model 77/44 for under $700.00. Still "pricey", I agree, but I'm an adherent of the old adage, "You get what you pay for". And when your life might be at stake, another adage comes to mind: "There's no such thing as a free lunch."
 
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