Brian&Stewie
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Is a .44 magnum totally overkill for home defense. Any one care to discuss the pros and cons?
.44 Magnum
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Deanimator
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Not with .44 Specials. I keep a 4" S&W 29-2 for exactly that purpose. I use the 200gr. Blazer Gold Dots and the Federal 200gr. LSWC-HPs.
Jim Gwyn
Member
There are some "issues" with the .44 magnum as a home defense round. Two of the biggest of them are over penetration and heavy recoil.
Also, as a lesser issue, the .44 magnum is usually very loud. Mind you, any full power handgun fired inside a house is likely to produce some amount of hearing damage.
As noted by Deanimator above, you can load it with .44 special to control recoil. I knew a guy who used Glaser safety slugs in one because he lived in a trailer park and was concerned about over penetration. (That was his only revolver and he didn't want the complexity of an auto pistol.)
Another con is, would a hostile DA use the fact that you used a .44 magnum to paint you as a "Dirty Harry" wannabe? Is this a major issue in your venue? Will that change come next election?
There are studies of real world lethality (by Evan Marshall if I recall correctly) that indicate that no handgun round offers much advantage over the .357 with 125 gr JHPs.
http://www.stoppingpower.net/
All that said, I am very fond of the .44 Remington magnum.
YMMV.
Also, as a lesser issue, the .44 magnum is usually very loud. Mind you, any full power handgun fired inside a house is likely to produce some amount of hearing damage.
As noted by Deanimator above, you can load it with .44 special to control recoil. I knew a guy who used Glaser safety slugs in one because he lived in a trailer park and was concerned about over penetration. (That was his only revolver and he didn't want the complexity of an auto pistol.)
Another con is, would a hostile DA use the fact that you used a .44 magnum to paint you as a "Dirty Harry" wannabe? Is this a major issue in your venue? Will that change come next election?
There are studies of real world lethality (by Evan Marshall if I recall correctly) that indicate that no handgun round offers much advantage over the .357 with 125 gr JHPs.
http://www.stoppingpower.net/
All that said, I am very fond of the .44 Remington magnum.
YMMV.
Seven For Sure
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.44 magnum Speer Short Barrel Gold Dots.
glockman19
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YES the recoil can make followup shots harder to place so, practice, practice, practice. It doesn't matter IMHO where you hit the BG because the power of the .44mag. It's a one shot stopper.
AS far as overpenetration is concerned I'm not to worried about it.
Redhawk 44
Member
44 Specials in a Gold Dot factory load or a Cor Bon load would be excellent.
IMHO the CorBons recoil like a Hot 357 mag load and clock 1163 out of my chrono. The 44 Spl Gold Dots are slower but more manageable. The Gold Dots expand well at their slower velocity.
Gold Dot 44 Spls are also more economical and easier to find.
Failing Gold Dots or Cor Bons I would opt for the Federal 44 Spl lead hollowpoint load.
Your Magnum will never complain about shooting Special level loads.
IMHO the CorBons recoil like a Hot 357 mag load and clock 1163 out of my chrono. The 44 Spl Gold Dots are slower but more manageable. The Gold Dots expand well at their slower velocity.
Gold Dot 44 Spls are also more economical and easier to find.
Failing Gold Dots or Cor Bons I would opt for the Federal 44 Spl lead hollowpoint load.
Your Magnum will never complain about shooting Special level loads.
rklessdriver
Member
Let's not forget the MUZZLE FLASH of a .44mag would blind everyone including the Police (responding to your 911 call) still a mile from your home...
Well maybe not that bad. However I use to shoot my Super Blackhawk at dusk or night just because the fireball looked that freakin cool. Never faild to impress who ever I was trying to impress at the time. It was huge and yes it would ruin your night vision in a hurry.
Will
Well maybe not that bad. However I use to shoot my Super Blackhawk at dusk or night just because the fireball looked that freakin cool. Never faild to impress who ever I was trying to impress at the time. It was huge and yes it would ruin your night vision in a hurry.
Will
Snapping Twig
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Use Specials for SD, over that it's wasted energy and recoil.
The .44 Spl is just about the same as a .45acp and you know how well people like that round for SD.
The .44 Spl is just about the same as a .45acp and you know how well people like that round for SD.
moph759fl
Member
I keep mine full of Federal Power-Shok 180 gr JHP, and if I miss with the first shot the flash and blast may give the BG pause till the next shot gets him.
A .44 magnum makes an outstanding home defense gun - as mentioned above, use the proper .44spcl ammo for it and consider it a 100% reliable .45acp platform.
I would rather have that defense than a .357/.38 - the .357 may overpenetrate, too, and the .44spcl offers so much more than a .38 or .38 +p. For home defense, I'd prefer a reliable 1911 with good HP ammo I've tested for function, or .44pscl with about the same ballistics.
As to a DA going after someone for using "too much gun," - this just sounds apocryphal. I know non-lawyer gun writers like to quote it like it's a mantra, but has anyone in the legal system EVER seen someone, who when justifiably using lethal force, was persecuted for using too much lethal force? It's time to investigate this myth, in my mind...
I would rather have that defense than a .357/.38 - the .357 may overpenetrate, too, and the .44spcl offers so much more than a .38 or .38 +p. For home defense, I'd prefer a reliable 1911 with good HP ammo I've tested for function, or .44pscl with about the same ballistics.
As to a DA going after someone for using "too much gun," - this just sounds apocryphal. I know non-lawyer gun writers like to quote it like it's a mantra, but has anyone in the legal system EVER seen someone, who when justifiably using lethal force, was persecuted for using too much lethal force? It's time to investigate this myth, in my mind...
Given what I've seen from mine it could easily go through a bad guy, through the wall, and into the neighbors house next door.Yep BigBlock, that is exactly why I have one!- spcls. inside county, mags. out in the country!
So, being literal to the OP's post, I think most of us agree that .44 magnum CARTRIDGE at full load is bit overkill for home defense. However, a .44magnum GUN is not, as you can choose the right cartridge.
So, being literal to the OP's post, I think most of us agree that .44 magnum CARTRIDGE at full load is bit overkill for home defense. However, a .44magnum GUN is not, as you can choose the right cartridge.
Cosmoline
Member
Conventional knee-jerk wisdom is, yet again, TOTALLY WRONG
The .44 Magnum is perfectly acceptable, provided you select the proper bullet and load combination. Obviously heavy hardcasts are not the best choice, but there are many lighter HP's available that will work extremely well for home defense. 180 grain XTP's for example will not penetrate too much, but deliver substantially more devestating impacts than the inferior rounds most people oddly prefer.
If your life is in danger, use the biggest, baddest weapon you can lay hand on. A .44 mag beats a .45 ACP or 9x19 any day o' the week. Just load her up proper. To eliminate recoil issues and improve your aim use a CARBINE instead of a revolver as the home defense platform.
Stop wasting time worrying about what a hypothetical DA is going to do in a hypothetical case. If you are facing imminent deadly harm you must prevail or die. Don't hamstring yourself with an inferior weapon because you think it's going to be more politically correct. If you're that worried about the local DA's and jury pool, MOVE.
The .44 Magnum is perfectly acceptable, provided you select the proper bullet and load combination. Obviously heavy hardcasts are not the best choice, but there are many lighter HP's available that will work extremely well for home defense. 180 grain XTP's for example will not penetrate too much, but deliver substantially more devestating impacts than the inferior rounds most people oddly prefer.
If your life is in danger, use the biggest, baddest weapon you can lay hand on. A .44 mag beats a .45 ACP or 9x19 any day o' the week. Just load her up proper. To eliminate recoil issues and improve your aim use a CARBINE instead of a revolver as the home defense platform.
Stop wasting time worrying about what a hypothetical DA is going to do in a hypothetical case. If you are facing imminent deadly harm you must prevail or die. Don't hamstring yourself with an inferior weapon because you think it's going to be more politically correct. If you're that worried about the local DA's and jury pool, MOVE.
sparkyguy
member
OMG! Ridiculous..
what a buncha hooey. In a self-defence situation, a hit with either 38spl or 38spl +p will suffice. I don't know where these self-proclaimed experts get their bs knowledge from.
I'll take a 38spl any day of the week inside a house for self-defence. It still won't be pleasant, but not deafening and disorienting as a big bore would be. You can take that to the bank.
what a buncha hooey.
In a self-defence situation, a hit with either 38spl or 38spl +p will suffice. I don't know where these self-proclaimed experts get their bs knowledge from. I'll take a 38spl any day of the week inside a house for self-defence. It still won't be pleasant, but not deafening and disorienting as a big bore would be. You can take that to the bank.azredhawk44
Member
This has happened.
Up in Flagstaff, Arizona.
I don't have names, but I'm sure someone else can chime in. About 3 years ago, one man was out hiking, armed with a Glock model 20 in 10mm. He carried that particular weapon for protection from wild animals such as black bear and mountain lion in the area. Another man came upon him and was walking with dogs. The dogs charged the lone man in a reportedly very threatening manner, and the lone man was forced to put the dogs down. The man with the dogs then became very aggressive and confrontational with the lone armed hiker and a conflict ensued, resulting in the dog-walking man being shot.
The DA up there decided to go forward with charges and used the particular power of the 10mm cartridge and the capacity of the G20 platform as evidence of malicious intent. I think the bugaboo catch-all "hollowpoints" was thrown in there for good measure, too.
Lone hiker was convicted by a jury of his peers. Meanwhile, AZ Legislature passed a bill expressly protecting future outdoorsmen who arm themselves while hiking/exploring/hunting from malicious prosecution.
Wow, the cranks are out in force today - guess it's April 1!
SparkyGuy, go look at the ballistics of the .44spc and .45 acp and then tell me that a .38spcl offers the same level of stopping power. Just ain't so, and saying it won't make it so. Yes, a .38spcl SHOULD suffice, and a .44 or .45 would work better. A .44 magnum will work even better, if you can tolerate the flash, bang, and recoil, and still get a follow-on shot rapidly and accurately. Most can't.
A .44mag SHOULD work even better, if you can get an expanding bullet AND hit a large bone or solid organ longitudinally enough to not overpenetrate and end up in the neighbors place - risks that just aren't necessary. Also, in a night time or indoors encounter, the noise and flash of a full .44 magnum is going to disorient lots of shooters and significantly reduce follow-on shots and usually accuracy. Importantly, you need to practice with the gun in question
I shoot .38spcl, .357magnums, .44spcls, .45acp, .44 magnum, and .45 Long Colts. I reload for all of them. If I am forced to shoot inside my home, it's going to be with the .45acp or .44spcl, loaded with deadly HPs and going subsonic (e.g., under 1070fps) to provide a lethal dose, and non-disorienting recoil, but not with anything else. If I carry outside my home, I'll use a .357 magnum or .44 magnum mainly, and a .45acp, .38 or .45LC much less frequently.
While it certainly sound macho, it's NOT about using the "biggest weapon you can lay hand on" - it's about the best weapon you can use effectively and consistently. For most folks, that limit is the .357/.44spcl/.45acp level when under stress, in the dark, and indoors.
SparkyGuy, go look at the ballistics of the .44spc and .45 acp and then tell me that a .38spcl offers the same level of stopping power. Just ain't so, and saying it won't make it so. Yes, a .38spcl SHOULD suffice, and a .44 or .45 would work better. A .44 magnum will work even better, if you can tolerate the flash, bang, and recoil, and still get a follow-on shot rapidly and accurately. Most can't.
A .44mag SHOULD work even better, if you can get an expanding bullet AND hit a large bone or solid organ longitudinally enough to not overpenetrate and end up in the neighbors place - risks that just aren't necessary. Also, in a night time or indoors encounter, the noise and flash of a full .44 magnum is going to disorient lots of shooters and significantly reduce follow-on shots and usually accuracy. Importantly, you need to practice with the gun in question
I shoot .38spcl, .357magnums, .44spcls, .45acp, .44 magnum, and .45 Long Colts. I reload for all of them. If I am forced to shoot inside my home, it's going to be with the .45acp or .44spcl, loaded with deadly HPs and going subsonic (e.g., under 1070fps) to provide a lethal dose, and non-disorienting recoil, but not with anything else. If I carry outside my home, I'll use a .357 magnum or .44 magnum mainly, and a .45acp, .38 or .45LC much less frequently.
While it certainly sound macho, it's NOT about using the "biggest weapon you can lay hand on" - it's about the best weapon you can use effectively and consistently. For most folks, that limit is the .357/.44spcl/.45acp level when under stress, in the dark, and indoors.
Azredhawk44,
Thanks for relating that. It sounds more like the prosecution was seriously biased on many counts. The articles I found made it sound that it was more the judges action of throwing out evidence that resulted in the conviction, not the choice of gun. Also, he didn't shoot the dogs it says - only the man when he rushed him. Here's one of the stories:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4181/is_20060619/ai_n16488917
Thanks for relating that. It sounds more like the prosecution was seriously biased on many counts. The articles I found made it sound that it was more the judges action of throwing out evidence that resulted in the conviction, not the choice of gun. Also, he didn't shoot the dogs it says - only the man when he rushed him. Here's one of the stories:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4181/is_20060619/ai_n16488917
Beagle-zebub
Member
What the heck, the article says that the prosecution contended that he should have fired a warning shot--don't people who fire warning shots catch hell from the law? That's what I've been led to believe.
azredhawk44
Member
kamerer and leadhead:
thank you for finding the specifics of the case.
thank you for finding the specifics of the case.
sparkyguy
member
Oh, I agree with that statement
If you don't hit what your shooting at, don't matter how big a gun you think you need...it's still a miss. A center mass hit from 6' away with a 38 and bg is going down, same as any other caliber, practically.
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NickEllis
Member
easy, sparkyguy and kramerer;
Lets not get this thread locked by your rhetoric. Or is this the revolver forum version of 9mm vs .45? None of this addresses the question of the OP: is the 44mag decent for a indoor SD handgun.
Lets not get this thread locked by your rhetoric. Or is this the revolver forum version of 9mm vs .45? None of this addresses the question of the OP: is the 44mag decent for a indoor SD handgun.
Cosmoline
Member
That's the Harold Fish case. There are about 100 threads on this trial. Suffice it to say chosing a 9mm over a 10mm would not have done much to help his case. You can worry all day about the possible things a theoretical jury or DA might be swayed by, right down to your choice of clothing and footware.
Hopefully, yes. But unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way.
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