.44 Special vs. .45 ACP

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Well, the .44 is a great caliber, but for a pure defense conversation, the number of excellent people-bullet designs available in .45ACP dwarfs the .44 special, and any good defense bullet in the special, can be loaded in the .45 too.

People can get too hung up on specific bullet designs, but they can also completely ignore it or tell themself that a semi-wadcutter or generic cast LHP will deliver exactly the same level of performance as a Ranger-T, HST, or PDX/Gold Dot type bullet will.

The one really outstanding bullet (other than Gold Dots, and I don't know how well the .44 version of it works) that can be had in both is the DPX, and they are pretty pricey. It's just easier to find a load that's been optimized for angry people in .45 ACP, even though there are lots of perfectly good special loads out there.
 
I'm a big fan of the .44, lord knows I have enough of them. But over the years I've noticed the .44 Spl has one drawback that can't be overlooked unless you reload. Ammo, it's anemic and over priced.

I don't own a .45 acp revolver but would in a heartbeat. I had 2 revolvers that shot the .45 Colt and sold both, I'm not a fan of that cartridge.
 
The only reason to have a handgun is to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun
Please explain all the people that hunt with a handgun then.
 
One thing I usually don't get about the .44 Special defense loads is they generally tend to be lighter bullets, 185-225 grain range. I REALLY don't get this. It's easier to get resistance with heavier bullets, and, out of short barrels, you can get the heavy bullets really moving. The only thing I can think of is the heavier recoil of the 250-260 grain bullets, at velocity, make the ammo makers think it's better to use the lighter bullet, due to doubletaps.

Or, they are sold on the idea that if they produce a 'defense' load that is far enough outside the Defense load gel results, and someone actually uses it, with bad effect, they might get sued due to 'over powered' defense ammo?

With a thin jacket, and pure lead, no reason a 260 grain bullet won't open up like crazy, and perhaps have enough bullet weight to penetrate in a straight line, on a large target.

Here is an example:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/36727-5.html

Our cheap price? 25 bucks for 20 rounds?

If you are going to have such a big, beautiful case, use the thing.
"Penetration and expansion in our test medium of 10% ballistic gelatin are excellent; expansion is consistently 2 times the original diameter of the bullet. Depending on caliber and bullet weight, penetration is between 9 and 14 inches."

Heres another one:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2H90700-1.html
165 grains at 900 fps? I've got .38 Special Plus P's with better ballistics.
At least they are cheap. 15 bucks for 20.

It's this weird combination of light bullets, not going very fast, and very expensive ammunition that is a problem with both the .44 Special and the .45 Colt. Reminds me of buying a Bugatti
http://fastestcarsintheworld.net/
to drive in Kali. If you want short cartridge ballistics, use a short cartridge.

Also, when you download that big case you can have detonation problems, inconsistent ignition due to the powder getting away from the primer, etc.
All of this would create poor accuracy due to velocity variation.
 
I agree as to the lack of good SD ammo for the 44 special. I'd love to see somebody load Hornady's 240gr LSWCHP loaded to 900-950fps. Until then I guess I'll make do with 200gr golddots.
 
The reason for having that big case, in both .45 Colt, and .44 Special is to take advantage of it, and load, big, heavy long bullets.
If you look at the low end of the .44 Magnum loadings you get stuff like

1130 fps, at 26k PSI with a 240 grain NOS JHP.
The weird part is you can use MUCH heavier bullets and get nearly the same velocity, with a MUCH heavier bullet.
How about 1041 fps, but using a 325 grain LFN and only 19,200Cup for pressure?

The really weird part is with minimum loads, in the 20-30PSI range, you can move 355 grain bullets nearly 1200 fps, and 330 grain bullets at 1240fps.

As for a 200 grain bullet: a MINIMUM loading, around 27k-30k CUP will move a 200 grain bullet between 1440-1708 fps.:what:

So, given a choice, I would rather have a 200 grain gas checked Hard cast
LFN or HP going 1700 fps then a 190 grain soft lead going 1100 fps.
Hard cast is likely to expand anyway after about 1300 fps, in particular when it hits bone.

Not using the potential of the .44 is like putting training wheels on a Ferrari.

If you are going to use light bullets, cast em a bit harder, and get them going 1300-1400 fps. THAT works VERY well.
 
This isn't all that hard to figure out.

If you like and are enamored with the .45ACP and have shot 1911 with it go for it.

Taurus made 5 shot revolvers, the 455 Tracker and the 455 Ti. in 45 ACP. This is no bigger than the similar K frame S&W model 66 or 620.

In .44 Special Taurus made the 431,fixed sights, 5 shot revolver. These come in 3 & 4 inch barrels. It's kin to the 455. Same thing as far as being made in the size of the K frame. I own several.

Next in line is the Taurus 441. Adjustable sights, 3,4, or 6 inch barrels. 5 shots. I own 4 of those.

Last, but not least comes the Rossi 720. It's a 5 shot, .44 Special revolver as well. One gun writer/instructor for one of the 2011 periodicals discovered just how nice the Rossi 720 was and declared it one of his top picks and backed it up with well thought out fact and reason.

The nice thing is that these 5 shot revolvers, .45 ACP or .44 Special, can be carried in the field or for CCW carry.

Granted, these cannot handle the super heavy loads for Grizzly Bears and such. For large dangerous beasts I would carry a 6 shot S&W or Ruger .41 magnum and up in caliber.

However they can handle standard pressure self defense rounds that will stop two footed and 4 footed critters.

Speedstrips and speedloaders are available for these revolvers.

Corbon, Speer, and other ammo manufacturers make excellent defense ammo for either caliber.

For me there is no caliber war. People can make comparisons all day and get nowhere. If something stops a big bullet from one of these calibers from a properly placed slug then what ever has been hit is going to have it's day ruined.
 
in a revolver format I choose the .44 special; for people who have .44 magnum revolvers (for hunting or 'the fun factor' or woods/hiking defense) it offers a great alternative as a training, plinking, and even self defense (when loaded with an effective hollowpoint) for use in their magnum revolvers...

I keep some CCI Blazer (aluminum cased) .44 spl loaded with Speer Gold Dot 200gr jhp's around for a lower pressure defense load (more control, less deafening, less muzzle blast than .44 magnum loads); I am able to use the same speedloaders and/or speed strips that I use for .44 mangum
 
No. Sectional density changes as bullets expand a 190gr that expands as much as that one is going to, will not penatrate as well. I'd be more tempted to carry their 200gr full wadcutter. As it is I'm ordering some 215gr SWCs that once I get a load worked up will be carried for any reloads I'll still leave the GDs in the gun though.

Prosser: this isn't the 1940's the 44 mag has been around for more than 50 years, so there is no reason to buy a 44 special and load it to magnum levels. Besides a 240gr keith @ 1000 fps will kill anything in the lower 48.
 
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Why do people get trapped into these discussions of 45/44 0r 357/45. Blah-bla-blah. The 44 Special is an awesome self defense round. Just as is the 45 ACP. In a revolver the 44 Special wold be the better of the two. Why? Because it can handle greater pressure loads if you are into that stuff. More guns made for it. If you go with the ACP in revolver you have less options.
 
What about a 230-240 grain .44 Special going 1000-1050 FPS, loaded with a good hollow point? Would that be just as good or better than a typical 230 grain .45 ACP JHP going 850-900 fps? If so, would it have more recoil, and how much?
 
What about a 230-240 grain .44 Special going 1000-1050 FPS, loaded with a good hollow point? Would that be just as good or better than a typical 230 grain .45 ACP going 850-900 fps?
Yes! Just as good, if not better. A bit better sectional density, so a bit more penetration. Also a bit more velocity so a bit more penetration.

Not enough to worry about, either way.

If so, would it have more recoil,
Yes. (Same weight, more velocity = more recoil.)

and how much?
A little tiny bit.
 
Wound channel diameter of 1.017" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 900 fps.

Wound channel diameter of 1.126" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .429", and a striking velocity of 1050 fps.

The added velocity creates a larger wound channel, and makes up for the smaller diameter bullet.

I thought I'd run the .452" bullet at the same velocity:

Wound channel diameter of 1.187" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 1050 fps.

Sam1911 has it right, with the tiny part.

Just playing around with this to see if velocity that I think is important, really is:

Wound channel diameter of 1.074" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 950 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 1.243" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 1100 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 1.356" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 1200 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 1.526" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 1350 fps.

1100 fps looks like sort of the sweatspot. 1/4" bigger then 950, and 1200
doesn't seem to add much.
1350 fps has the added bonus that hard cast bullets tend to deform if they hit bone, creating a serious mushroom effect.

Using a 2 pound gun you get:
230 @ 900
Recoil Energy of 8 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 16 fps.
Recoil Energy of 10 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 18 fps.

Using a 3 pound gun:
230 @ 900
Recoil Energy of 5 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 10 fps.
230 @ 1050
Recoil Energy of 7 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 12 fps.
Finally how about 1.3 pounds, like a Charter Arms Bulldog:
230@900
Recoil Energy of 12 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 24 fps.
230 @ 1050
Recoil Energy of 16 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 28 fps.

Conclusions?
 
What about a 230-240 grain .44 Special going 1000-1050 FPS, loaded with a good hollow point? Would that be just as good or better than a typical 230 grain .45 ACP JHP going 850-900 fps?

If you're going to push the .44 Special along at 1000-1050 FPS, why would you restrict the .45 ACP to 850-900 fps? That's the beauty of a .45 in a revolver.

Don
 
The other beauty of .45 is using LFN style bullets without worrying about feeding problems.

Sam1911: Thought you might enjoy that task. I wanted to see how tiny tiny really is.:)

In a good sized revolver those recoil numbers are the same as 9MM out of most automatics, with less velocity.

Those numbers appear to lend credence to the 1350 FPS point, and 1100 fps.
Considering most of my big guns shoot stuff that going at least 1350 fps, I get the warm and fuzzies looking at the table.:D

Also, my Kimber 1911 with 230 grain HP's at 1100 fps, buffalobore .45 Super,
also gets me over wanting that extra 100 fps.

Where stuff gets serious is loads like that in a Charter Arms Bulldog.
going from 900 to 1050, with a light little gun like that and you start getting recoil velocity as fast as full house loads in my big guns.
 
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