45-70 and IMR3031

[ArchAngelCD]

I have more load manuals than I can count.
I have several good and accurate loads using 4198 and A5744.
Please DO NOT recommend another powder, I want to use up the 3031 I have.

I recently bought a Marlin levergun in 45-70 and I want to load for it. I have a little over a half box of 300gr JSP Hornady bullet and a pound and a half of 3031 I want to use up.

I am not looking for hot loads and I'm only asking for suggestions on accurate loads because components are in short supply so I'm trying to save on testing. I'm looking for something in the max trapdoor range or starting levergun range, nothing really hot. I'm more interested in accurate loads than beating up my shoulder and the gun.

Anything you can suggest using a 300gr JSP and 3031 would be appreciated. Remember, I'm looking for accuracy, not velocity. Thanks...

 

[steveno]

when I used 3031 and a 300 gr bullet in the 45-70 I would get hang fires with it. the 300 just didn't seem to provide enough resistance and chronograph readings were all over the place with spreads as high as 300 fps. 3031 seemed to work ok with 400 grain bullets. I consider 3031 to slow for 300 grain bullets. I switched over to 2400 for 300 grain bullets. this was out of a guide gun as well as a ruger #1S

that was using standard primers with 3031. I don't know if magnum primers would have solved the problem as I didn't try them

 

[GooseGestapo]

Mike Venturino of "Handloader Magazine" and others, frequently recommends IMR3031 for the .45/70.

Its about as good as it gets for the old warrior.

He typically recommends a load of 59.0gr of IMR3031 under 300gr bullets. This delivers approx. 1,900fps from a 22-24"bbl and essentially duplicates an old Winchester "Express" factory load. This btw is a Speer recommended MAXIMUM for the Marlin 1895 action, but it is still well below what is frequently fed these rifles. They (Speer) suggest a starting load of 54.0gr. This shouldn't "hang fire" either.
The trap-door loads are 50gr (start) to 54.0 (max).

I've even gotten hang-fires with my GuideGun and H4198 (light charges) under 320gr cast bullets. So, its a problem with "trap door" pressure levels even with faster "center fire rifle" powders in the voluminous case of the .45/70.
My only "issue" with IMR3031 is that it takes "so much" weight wise. I too "like" #2400 and the 300gr bullets. My favorite load for my GuideGun is 30.0gr of #2400 under the RCBS 300gr FNGC (mine casts to 322gr w/Hornady GC and SGP lube). It delivers ~1,700fps from my 18.5"bbl and ~2moa accuracy. I'd want "more" if I was in Alaska around "big" bears, but in the lower 48, under 200yds, this load has more than enough "horse power".... and delivers over 200rds per pound of powder.

 

[geo57]

Before switching to IMR 4198 and 405 gr. JSP projectiles, for years I used 50.0 grs. of IMR 3031 and 300 gr. JHP's in my 45-70 Handi rifle. It was at the time the starting load in the Hornady manual for level 2 loads and ran about 1600 FPS from a 22 " bbl. . It proved to be extremely accurate in my rifle, mild on the shoulder and an effective, quick whitetail stopper. My only complaint with the load was that it did leave some powder particles in the bore that were not completely burned. I have never had an issue with hang fires. I do apply a moderate crimp on my loads which I believe is an aid in ignition / uniform powder burning.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That's what I was afraid of, a light bullet in a huge case with a slower powder!

I really wanted ti use up the 3031 I have since I no longer intend to use it in 30-30 ammo. I'm using LVR instead and I like the results.

What other cartridges is IMR3031 good for? I have plenty of powder for the 223/5.56mm or I would use it up there.

 

[Don McDowell]

49 grs with a federal 215 magnum primer and that 300 gr bullet would take the small diamond out of a leoupold sightin target at 100 yds when ran thru the Marlin 95 I had.

 

[Tolkachi Robotnik]

IMR 3031 for 30 and 31 caliber bullets.

It is rated especially for 150 grain and lighter loads in almost all .30 caliber applications. It closely matches the old cordite in burning rate.

It has a little trouble holding consistency when bullet weights go up toward 180 and 200 grains in .308 applications. The range given in data is less and the pressures are toward the higher end. It is an old powder, been around a long time.

I use it for 7.62X54R mostly. Have burned more IMR 3031 than anything except maybe Red Dot.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

OK, I loaded up 20 rounds.

Marlin 1895 levergun
Remington Brass
Winchester LRP
48.0gr 3031
300gr Hornady JHP bullet

Range report to follow tomorrow...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I was a little surprised at the recoil generated by the above load. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't uncontrollable or painful but I expected it to feel lighter. With open sights I was hitting small plastic water bottles @ 40 and 50 yards with ease. All the powder ignited and there were no black Carbon marks on the outside of the brass. I should have brought the chrono to check the velocity of those loads just to be sure it's within the range specified by Hornady for expansion. If the velocity is acceptable for that bullet I will probably stick with that load until I use up the almost 2 pounds of 3031 I have left.

Thanks for the input...

 

[steveno]

since the powder charge is part of the recoil formula the less powder you use to get a certain velocity the recoil will be less. that is one of the reasons I used 2400 and Unique in the 45-70. the 45-70 got it is reputation by using big bullets at low velocity and penetration. some of the loads people use in the 45-70 can't be obtained safely with 2400 & Unique but those loads are NOT fun at all to shoot either.

 

[au_prospector]

I am currently testing loads with this bullet http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14919-c120-g8-b0-p0-45_70_Cal_458_350gr_RS_500ct.aspx

I am using Lyman's 49th data for a 350 grain jacketed flat point and loaded rounds at 40 grain, 41 grain, 42 grain, 43 grain and 44 grain IMR 3031 for use in my H&R Springfield trapdoor officers model made in the 1970's. I had about 10 rounds made with 40 grains and Winchester LRP that were not quite right which I just blasted away. (not quite right in the seating depth too deep and some cases had slight buckles from too much crimp, etc) The cannelure on this bullet is in a spot that makes the OAL off I think.

Anyway, this rifle has a steel butt plate and I am a skinny boney person. Had to quit after ten shots because my shoulder was distressed and my arm was tingling. I guess my message is even with trapdoor loads, this round can be punishing. Must have been brutal back in the day. Next time Im using a pachmyr decelerator. I did however get nice 2 inch groups at 50 yards with the iron peep sight when I concentrated on trigger control. I know it will do better still.

 

[Don McDowell]

If a person just absolutely has to use smokeless powder in a 45-70, 3031 is pretty hard to beat. It and 5744 are very good at duplicating blackpowder ballistics, and the accuracy and all the rest that comes with those sedate (by todays standard) speeds.

 

[Ray P]

au_prospector: Berrys did relocate the cannelure on their plated .458 plated flat point. Older Berry's bullets have the cannelure too far back to chamber in the 1895 if you use a 2.095 case length. The nice thing is, Berrys are soft enough to hold a mild crimp even if you don't use the cannelure.

oh. Here's an older photo of the old and new Berry's .458 PFN bullets. See how much higher the cannelure is on the newer projos?
[/IMG]

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I am currently testing loads with this bullet http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14919-c120-g8-b0-p0-45_70_Cal_458_350gr_RS_500ct.aspx

I am using Lyman's 49th data for a 350 grain jacketed flat point and loaded rounds at 40 grain, 41 grain, 42 grain, 43 grain and 44 grain IMR 3031 for use in my H&R Springfield trapdoor officers model made in the 1970's. I had about 10 rounds made with 40 grains and Winchester LRP that were not quite right which I just blasted away. (not quite right in the seating depth too deep and some cases had slight buckles from too much crimp, etc) The cannelure on this bullet is in a spot that makes the OAL off I think.

Anyway, this rifle has a steel butt plate and I am a skinny boney person. Had to quit after ten shots because my shoulder was distressed and my arm was tingling. I guess my message is even with trapdoor loads, this round can be punishing. Must have been brutal back in the day. Next time Im using a pachmyr decelerator. I did however get nice 2 inch groups at 50 yards with the iron peep sight when I concentrated on trigger control. I know it will do better still.

I don't shoot jacketed bullets in my trapdoor rifle. (mine is a model of 1884) I shoot mostly 405gr plain base Cast bullets over either H-4198 or AA5744.

 

[Slamfire]

Try your IMR 3031 in the 308, 30-06 and the 35 Whelen. Works great in those calibers and you already have good loads for your 45/70.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Try your IMR 3031 in the 308, 30-06 and the 35 Whelen. Works great in those calibers and you already have good loads for your 45/70.

I just might have to do that, thanks. I was also thinking I could continue to use the 3031 for lead bullets in the 30-30 and use LVR for jacketed. (for now until the 3031 is gone)