SharpsDressedMan
member
FWIW, the .500 Magnum generates more energy than the .45-70 in most loadings. BUT, the revolver is designed well, so injury to the shooter is not the USUAL result.
45 70 double barrel pistol
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Hizzie
Member
Simply awsome. I wonder how well regulated that is. I have always wanted a Howdah pistol. .577 Snyder was once a popular chambering for them.
Not with the standard boxlock release! Avoiding that is probably why that particular gun has the angled stock that prevents rolling. The old Ithaca Auto and Burglar was also similarly designed, with the addition of a big "nub" to prevent any rolling.
Now I'm tempted to build one. I've got an old baker shotgun with a broken-to-the-point-of-being ruined stock that I've been trying to figure out what to do with. Anybody have any input as to the legality of building something like this with that shotgun's action and receiver, but with new pistol grip, barrels, etc.? Doesn't seem like it would be, but I've never thought about it before.
w_houle
Member
So, how long will it be before they make these guns in 450 Marlin?
MachIVshooter
Member
Because the receiver was catalogued as long gun, you have to stick with shotgun lengths (18" tubes, 26" OAL). If you went to rifled bores, now the 16" barrel minimum applies with the same 26" OAL requirement, pistol grip or otherwise. Any shorter, it must be registered as an SBS/SBR.
However, you can manufacture your own receiver and make it a pistol. But it must have rifled bores under .500", or it'll still be an NFA weapon.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Interesting but if I really wanted one I'd grab the .50x.50 Pedersoli percussion version and be done with it.
Dnaltrop
Member
About the only use I'd have for that is good-natured revenge...
Imagine it would go like this...
"Really, don't worry it's cool... I'm not mad, Hey! I'll take you to the range to shoot my new gun! My treat!"
(an hour later)
"Need more ice for that hand? "
Imagine it would go like this...
"Really, don't worry it's cool... I'm not mad, Hey! I'll take you to the range to shoot my new gun! My treat!"
(an hour later)
"Need more ice for that hand? "
Hizzie said:
It is not regulated more than any other pistol if the firearm was technically manufactured as a pistol.
It is under .50 caliber, and so if made originally as a pistol would be no different than another .45 caliber pistol.
Just need the manufacturer to make one as a pistol.
This is correct and often overlooked by people remarking on rifle caliber handguns.
Rifle rounds are designed to generate a certain pressure within a long barrel, and continue making more gas and pressure to maintain the level of pressure as the bullet travels down the barrel. Giving them much greater power than a handgun.
Handgun calibers on the other hand are designed to generate all their pressure within a short barrel, maximizing the power in a shorter length.
So a handgun round maximized for power will typically be more powerful in a shorter barrel than a rifle round.
Saami specs list the 45-70 as 28,000 PSI.
Heavy .500 Magnum loads are typically just under 50,000 psi.
The math is simple. Nearly 50,000 PSI for several inches of say an 8" of barrel will deliver the same weight bullet with more energy than 28,000 PSI maintained the entire 8" barrel length.
Compare say a .45 caliber .454 Casull that tops out at 60,000 PSI SAAMI to the 28,000 PSI .45-70.
You cannot simply load the larger case capacity with similar faster burning handgun powder to compensate, because you will exceed SAAMI pressure limits.
The rifle round only really clearly pulls away once you use a longer barrel.
25,000-28,000 PSI maintained for most of the length of the barrel with the slower burning rifle powder exceeding the performance of the 40,000-60,000 PSI for a few inches of barrel in some big handgun rounds.
There will however be a big difference in handling. A handgun like the .500 S&W is designed to be fired with a strong firm grip and has ergonomics best suited for the role.
That .45-70 firearm is clearly designed to be fired with a stock, and using the dual triggers and the oddly shaped grip now on it means the full recoil will be transmitted to a hand and wrist in a less than optimal position for dealing with heavy recoil.
Likely generating more pain and potential for injury even firing a less powerful load, while being less controllable.
But less controllable and more recoil pain does not mean more powerful.
So doubles turned into handguns look much more powerful than a .500 Magnum, but often are not. Just much less comfortable to fire.
Most of the rifle round's greater potential just exiting the front in the form of flame and unburned powder.
It is not regulated more than any other pistol if the firearm was technically manufactured as a pistol.
It is under .50 caliber, and so if made originally as a pistol would be no different than another .45 caliber pistol.
Just need the manufacturer to make one as a pistol.
This is correct and often overlooked by people remarking on rifle caliber handguns.
Rifle rounds are designed to generate a certain pressure within a long barrel, and continue making more gas and pressure to maintain the level of pressure as the bullet travels down the barrel. Giving them much greater power than a handgun.
Handgun calibers on the other hand are designed to generate all their pressure within a short barrel, maximizing the power in a shorter length.
So a handgun round maximized for power will typically be more powerful in a shorter barrel than a rifle round.
Saami specs list the 45-70 as 28,000 PSI.
Heavy .500 Magnum loads are typically just under 50,000 psi.
The math is simple. Nearly 50,000 PSI for several inches of say an 8" of barrel will deliver the same weight bullet with more energy than 28,000 PSI maintained the entire 8" barrel length.
Compare say a .45 caliber .454 Casull that tops out at 60,000 PSI SAAMI to the 28,000 PSI .45-70.
You cannot simply load the larger case capacity with similar faster burning handgun powder to compensate, because you will exceed SAAMI pressure limits.
The rifle round only really clearly pulls away once you use a longer barrel.
25,000-28,000 PSI maintained for most of the length of the barrel with the slower burning rifle powder exceeding the performance of the 40,000-60,000 PSI for a few inches of barrel in some big handgun rounds.
There will however be a big difference in handling. A handgun like the .500 S&W is designed to be fired with a strong firm grip and has ergonomics best suited for the role.
That .45-70 firearm is clearly designed to be fired with a stock, and using the dual triggers and the oddly shaped grip now on it means the full recoil will be transmitted to a hand and wrist in a less than optimal position for dealing with heavy recoil.
Likely generating more pain and potential for injury even firing a less powerful load, while being less controllable.
But less controllable and more recoil pain does not mean more powerful.
So doubles turned into handguns look much more powerful than a .500 Magnum, but often are not. Just much less comfortable to fire.
Which would be a handful for sure, but with almost no barrel length would be less powerful than many handgun rounds from the same barrel length.
Most of the rifle round's greater potential just exiting the front in the form of flame and unburned powder.
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Hizzie
Member
Zoog-
I meant "regulated" as in do both barrels shoot to point of aim like a double rifle, not if it is more heavily restricted like a NFA item.
I meant "regulated" as in do both barrels shoot to point of aim like a double rifle, not if it is more heavily restricted like a NFA item.
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