Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I found some on AmmoSeek.
I hope this works:
HSM .45-70 Ammo rifle Cowboy
In-stock best prices for HSM .45-70 Ammo rifle Cowboy | Cheap HSM .45-70 Ammunition rifle Cowboy - AmmoSeek.com
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45-70 Factory Ammo Question
- Thread starter luv2safari
- Start date
I hope this works:
ammoseek.com
OP
OP
luv2safari
Member
It does, and thank you.I found some on AmmoSeek.
I hope this works:
HSM .45-70 Ammo rifle Cowboy
In-stock best prices for HSM .45-70 Ammo rifle Cowboy | Cheap HSM .45-70 Ammunition rifle Cowboy - AmmoSeek.com
Last edited:
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I didn’t experience leading with the 45-70 ammo in my Henry Single Shot, but I did with their 30-30 Cowboy in my Winchester 94 carbine. That ammo was fun to shoot but 2 boxes in an afternoon plinking session resulted in a long cleaning process the next day.
Cowboy Action | HSM Ammunition
hsmammunition.com
After that I tried Bear Creek Supply moly coated bullets for lead bullet reloads in 30-30 and leading was no problem at all. Nonexistent as long as I didn’t push it too fast. It’s the same for their 45-70 bullets.
Official Website | United States | Bear Creek Supply
Bear Creek Supply Bullets. A Lead bullet manufacturer. Modern and obsolete bullets. Moly coated cast and swaged bullets. Since 1991
www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com
tark
Member
Regarding original trapdoor strength, Remington once did a test to demonstrate how strong their rolling block action was. They filled the barrel to halfway with powder and jammed a dozen or so bullets into it. The gun held.
So did a trapdoor, same load!!!
This is not to say you can go out and shoot Ruger #1 loads in a vintage trapdoor, but it does demonstrate that the old trapdoor may be stronger than we think.
So did a trapdoor, same load!!!
This is not to say you can go out and shoot Ruger #1 loads in a vintage trapdoor, but it does demonstrate that the old trapdoor may be stronger than we think.
PRD1
Member
The original 1873 and later Trapdoor rifles have steel barrels - but it is a mild steel, and not equal to later alloy steels for physical strength or wear resistance. I have measured some hundreds of .45-70 Trapdoor barrels with proper measuring instruments, and have found that the average groove diameter is between .461" and .462", with some measuring considerably larger - up to .468". The specified standard for Springfield Armory barrels is bore .450" and groove depth .005", which makes the nominal groove diameter .460", but that standard was evidently never held. Lead and lead alloy bullets much under groove diameter will gas cut and shoot poorly with smokeless loads, and I have never been fond of black powder in my cartridge rifles. In addition, bullets much over .461" diameter when seated in .45-70 cases will often not chamber in original Trapdoor rifles, so finding a suitable bullet which will shoot well in any given Trapdoor with smokeless loads is often not possible. As the Trapdoor rifles have 3 - groove rifling (with the exception of a few 6-groove types such as the very rare Marksman's rifles), it is not easy to determine actual groove diameter by slugging, or without a 3-point internal micrometer. In many years of checking Trapdoor .45-70 rifles I have found only 1 with nominal or slightly tighter groove diameter, and that one, which measures .459" is the only one I have kept and still shoot. I love the Trapdoor rifle, but abhor the poor quality control in making their barrels which cause so many headaches for modern shooters.
PRD1 - mhb - MIke
PRD1 - mhb - MIke
Jim Watson
Member
Which is why they started out with a hollow base bullet. I guess the later 500 gr was expected to obturate from simple inertia.
I bet the Wolf book would help.
the4570book.com
I bet the Wolf book would help.
Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine
Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine by J.S and Pat Wolf, 3rd edition, spiral bound to lay flat. This is the book that brought the Trapdoor out of the closet and into the winner's circle at the black powder single shot rifle matches. J.S. and Pat spent 3...
the4570book.com
All good info here. Big bores are a real problem for factory ammo. I used Steinel 405gr trapdoor smokeless loads and even though they were .459 (same as I use for my cast bullets), they performed poorly. When I started loaded grease grooved 500gr with BP, the rifle came alive. However, the Buffington sights are not spot on. I generally have to adjust it to about 25 yds less than the actual distance. But it is accurate and groups well for an old 45-70. Wolf says in his book that 405gr hollow base or 500gr flat base is needed for the rifle to shoot correctly. That has been my experience.
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