.45-70 hunting

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wgp

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I have developed a longing for one of the new Marlin/Ruger 1895 Guide Guns, if I can find one that is not priced too high. Looks to me to be effective for woods hunting whitetail where long range is not an issue. Anyone with experience to share? Oh, and can you get ammo? I have enough guns for which ammo is only available by handloading.
 
What is "woods" white tail hunting? 100 yards and less? 50 yards and less? That 45-70 is more than adequate for that application. So is just about any other center fire caliber rifle, at less cost for a rifle and ammunition, and much more comfortable to the senses when fired. But if you just want to own a 45-70 lever gun, yes, it will definitely put down a white tail. And just about every other animal on the planet.
 
I have been hunting with my JM Marlin Guide Gun Since 2003. I had just gotten back from the war and wanted a 45-70. I went to see my local friend (dealer) and purchased a slightly used one for $350.00. It is the original ported model. The original owner didn't like the recoil. I took it out hunting the first time that fall. We were hunting near Vienna NY. As I was walking to the location where I was going to hunt, a small buck walked right up to me then stopped. Lifted the rifle and shot with a front shot. Hit him base of the neck, he went down like someone took his legs out from under him. Found the jacket at the vertebrae in the back of the neck, which was smashed, the lead near his tail. Where we hunt it is very tight woods where your lucky to see 50 yards in front. I have shot many a tree trying to good a clean shot at a slow moving deer. For me I use handloads for hunting. Usually 300 grains or so. Don't need 500 grains to get a deer.

Why the 45-70? I can load it medium to low to hunt white tail. If I ever want to hunt something bigger, I can just load it hotter. Does it smack? Depending on the load, of course. All part of the fun.
 
Back at the turn of the century, The Marlin "Guide Gun" intrigued me too. While Marlin had chambered the 1895 in 45-70 since '72, the looks of the " new guide Gun" along with it's ported barrel, looked to me, to be the perfect "stalking" rifle for the big woods. Told my little brother about them and he went out and bought one before I could. Excitedly brought it over to the range one day with a box of factory ammo. By the end of the session, my fascination was done. Soon after I got into big bore revolvers for deer hunting and never looked back. I have since discovered that for deer, my lil' 77/44 will do everything that the Guide Gun could for me with cheaper ammo(I reload all my ammo) and much less noise and recoil. That said, they are still, a very nice gun and if I was looking for a bear backup rifle, I would own one.
 
Completely understand the warnings re recoil. No doubt the price of ammo will give heartburn. Frankly, when I have found a Guide Gun the prices were well in excess of even MSRP. I've got a good Model 94 .30-30, and plenty of other deer guns, so this is not a matter of applying good sense. In my early days of deer hunting I finally realized that there are plenty of calibers that will certainly kill a deer, notwithstanding the number of shooters with a passionate opinion that there is just their favorite. We'll see what develops.
 
Bought a stainless guide gun approximately 20 years ago (could be 15 or 25…). I have ammo from when purchased, some Remington and LeveRevolution. I have never shot it. I have picked up a LOT of brass and lead…hoping to put together some trap door loads. 405 grains at 1200 fps should put the hurt on anything I care to tangle with. As stated above, I can always load it up.

@wgp - yeppers, it will do what you are asking, and a lot more. Ammo is available, too

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/45-70
 
I had a GSL and CB at one time but for my hunting, that being a trip to a MI straight wall 1.8” max case length area, 450 BM made a ton more sense and has so far been more than satisfactory.

45-70 just doesn’t do it for me either. For some odd reason another 444 might find it’s way home with me given the right circumstances.
 
I hunt with a 24” Marlin 1895 topped with a 2-7 scope and either shoot hand loaded 300gr HP or Factory Winchester HP. I’ve shot deer and dropped them in their tracks out to 120yards. Factory ammo can be a bit harsh on recoil but if you handload you can load a little softer. Factory ammo is available but pricey.
 
FL-NC said:
What is "woods" white tail hunting? 100 yards and less? 50 yards and less? That 45-70 is more than adequate for that application. So is just about any other center fire caliber rifle, at less cost for a rifle and ammunition, and much more comfortable to the senses when fired. But if you just want to own a 45-70 lever gun, yes, it will definitely put down a white tail. And just about every other animal on the planet.
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Don't forget that some of us are limited to the "straight-wall" thing. (Dumb as it may be)
 
tactikel said:
IMHO the .30-30 is superior in almost every way. The .45-70 is fine for: Elk, Bison, Grizzly, in timber. For Deer it is over kill.
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Many calibers are overkill and just as many are questionable, in the end if you want a certain firearm I would never discourage you from buying it, in the end it is about owning the rifle one wants.
 
Armored farmer said:
Don't forget that some of us are limited to the "straight-wall" thing. (Dumb as it may be)
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That's right- I forgot. And it is dumb. I have heard " safety in flat terrain" as the reason the authorities are freaked out over center fire rifles some places. As flat as it is in Fl and most of the southeast, we use rifles and somehow manage not to wipe ourselves out every fall.
 
There seems to be an awful lot of guys using the 45-70 for deer in woods and timber..I suppose because it works.

It may well be "over-kill" on whitetail, but not in the way that a 300WM would be at 30yds, there's a big difference in the impact velocity. If you are still hunting or doing drives there's a lot to be said for cartridges that over-penetrate (is there such a thing?) when you don't get an ideal broadside.

I've often thought about getting an 1895 for woods hunting, and honestly the only thing that's held me back is that I've already got my M7 in .350RM, and the 1895s have a little heft to them.
 
Me thinks the main "problem" with the .45 U.S. Government is the obsession in recent years to magnumtize it, and get higher velocity with light bullets. (velocity sells cartridges) The "Trapdoor" loads will kill anything, gentle on deer, and won't kick bad. Or I don't think it kicks bad, but that's just me. I shoot 72 grains of black in my Springfields, and 80 grains in my Marlin, both with 400 grain bullets. I think 400 grains is the "sweet spot" for this cartridge. 350's ain't bad, but I'm not sure why the 300 grain bullet is so popular (other than velocity sells bullets) as to my mind, that's just a heavy pistol bullet.
 
We hunt in northern Wisconsin. Typical shots at deer are under 60 yards in heavy brush. 2 years ago my hunting buddy with a .45-70 Marlin shot a doe at 55 yards just forward, both shoulders shattered, front quarters gone. A .45-70 will kill anything in North America. A .30-30 will do the job with likely less meat loss IMHO.
 
I use a Sharps on occasion for hunting deer, and as stated earlier above , a slow moving heavy bullet does less damage to meat at impact. Unlike my 30-06 which is my go to rifle. I've never chased velocities and once I found a load that was accurate I stopped, and most times they were middle of the load references on the manuals.

My experience with high velocity one year, early in my beginning years of hunting on an 11 point buck made me realize that the right bullet is key as well as velocity. I was using a 125 gr bullet at over 3000 fps and it dumped all its energy upon impact and I had this huge wound cavity with even a larger destruction of meat around the cavity, just was not worth all the loss of meat. One learns through experience ...(hopefully).
 
tactikel said:
We hunt in northern Wisconsin. Typical shots at deer are under 60 yards in heavy brush. 2 years ago my hunting buddy with a .45-70 Marlin shot a doe at 55 yards just forward, both shoulders shattered, front quarters gone. A .45-70 will kill anything in North America. A .30-30 will do the job with likely less meat loss IMHO.
Click to expand...

I suspect he was shooting one of the popular 300 grain, loads, probably with a hollow point bullet. That is the fad these days. I could be wrong. I am a fan of the .30WCF, but load it hot with a 110 grain hollow point and it won't do any better. !!!! :)
 
JeffG said:
405gr. at about 1200fps. Less ruined meat.

View attachment 1123203
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There you go. Perfection. Much like the bullet I use, which is a copy of the original 405 grain bullet. I have two molds, one I eliminated the base plug. They both shoot the same, with or without the little hollow base, but the flat base version comes out at 416 grains. Again I think 400 grains is the sweet spot for the caliber. Some like the lighter bullets for less recoil, and that's okay I guess as long as you keep the velocity down. If you take advantage of the light weight to get more velocity then you get more bigger holes.

In the Marlin I shoot the Speer 400 grain JSP. The only deer I shot with that bullet was when I had "magnumtitus" and loaded it hot. It was a finishing shot on a deer my son shot, and at close range, so it blew up pretty bad. At normal range, and normal 1200-1300fps velocity I would expect it to perform perfectly. I had that sucker going something like 1700fps. Duh. :uhoh:
 
Several years ago, I wanted to buy both of my sons a rifle that would kill anything they would reasonably encounter in North America or farther away. I bought both of them SS Marlin SBL rifles.
The have killed several deer with them and the "damage" is comparable to any other deer rifle.
I 405 lead bullet at 1000 fps is fun to shoot all day, bump it up some and it will kill nicely.
 
When hogs first showed up on our place I hunted with an 1895. One day I shot a 150ish pound boar while he was facing me. He ran and I left to let him lay for a while. Came back an hour later to dig him out of the brush. He was very much still alive and almost ate my lunch. 405 grain soft point had entered just left of center chest and exited his right ham. Very little meat damage and not as much damage to his lung as you would expect. It was a freak deal but it seemed an arrow would have caused more bleeding. I set out to remedy the problem and drilled a deep gaping hole in some of those bullets. The next hog I shot was broadside and I hit him square in the shoulder. Believe it or not the bullet didn’t exit but you could have stuffed a baseball into his chest through the entrance wound. I still use those rounds to blow up pumpkins and watermelons for the kids!!! 45-70 is a fun round especially for a handloader.
 
I hunt moose sometimes with a 45-70 Marlin Trapper. Moose can hang out in some pretty thick stuff. There are also bears in the pretty thick stuff…I use the 405 or 420gr lead at max velocity, try to hit the moose where it will do the least amount of meat damage…try to hit the bear where it will do the most…
 
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