It all ways gets me when you hear people tallking about the old 45-70 as being no good past 150 yds. Could you see the faces of the old bufflo hunter of yester year if some one told them that. I guss that the modern deer are alot tougher than the old buffs. It seems to me that alot of the wrighter now adays think that if you don't have the lattest whiz bang super mag you just can't get it done, now these new deer are scary I just my need to break out the 458 win this season. Well thats my two cents worth. What's your take?