45/70 Questions

[Zeke Menuar]

I put a H&R Buffalo Classic on layaway on Saturday. Looks like a good gun. The price is certainly right.

I need to know a couple of things about it. Will it handle Marlin lever-action pressures (28,000 psi?) as I have been told?

I can't find any data for long barreled 45/70 loads. Most of the data I found is for lever-action's fired out of a 22" barrel.

I will be using Remington's 405gr jacketed SP. I think I can use slower powders to take advantage of the 32" barrel and get somewhere in the 1900fps range with sane pressure levels. Not sure what powders to start with. I have a chronograph I can use for load development.

Later on I want to get some 500gr lead bullets and black powder and try some long range shooting. Do I need any special equipment to load BP cartridges? I know I need a long drop tube made just for BP. Will my Lee scales and powder measure work for BP cartridges?

I know I'll need an aftermarket ladder sight to go much beyond 200 yards. The factory peep-sight isn't optimal for very long range shooting.

Looking forward to getting it home. This is a nice change from the cosmoline soaked milsurps I usually buy.

Thanks
ZM

 

[Johnny Guest]

Hummmm - - - I don't think so.

Zeke, I myself would NOT use the loads for 1886 Win/1895 Marlin lever action in your H&R break top rifle. The manuals I've seen all advise using the load range for the currently produced Trapdoor Springfield replicas in the H&Rs. The good news is, you are probably on the right track - - With your 32" barrel, the same charges of slow burning smokeless powders MAY give you velocities equal to the shorter lever guns with heavier charges.

In the Speer manual, they tested their Trapdoor loads in a 26" barrel. Some of these approach to within 35 to 100 fps of the velocities obtained in the 22" Marlin barrel, with heavier loads. Perhaps your six-inch longer barrel will improve these even more.

You'll need to do a bit of study to determine what powders you'll wish to use, and how close to the edge you want to go. Please make certain you have at least two recent loading manuals which show the varying load levels for .45-70. I strongly suggest you go no higher than the top loads for the trapdoor until you've done a LOT of experimentation.

It may turn out that you don't care to shoot too many top level loads through an eight-pound rifle. At least the Buffalo Classic doesn't have a radically curved buttplate.

I hope some members with significant experience in loading the H&R breaktops will contribute to this thread.

As to your black powder loads, I have no personal experience in loading BP rifle cartridges. The guys who load 'em sure seem to prefer using brass measures, or other non-sparking devices. If you don't wish to obtain one yet, you might want to purchase of fabricate some dippers from brass, aluminum, or plastic. You can dump these into the scale pan and trickle in the last bit.

I suggest you re-post the black powder loading part of your questions in the Blackpowder Shooting forum here on THR. I'd imagine there's a lot of info available from that source, too.

Best of luck - -
Johnny

 

[only1asterisk]

I don't often disagree with Johnny Guest, but I see nothing wrong with unlimited use of 28,000 CUP (SAAMI max. pressure btw) in the H&R rifles so chambered. I think it would be amazingly foolish for H&R to put out a rifle that would not digest standard ammunition. This is the very same rifle they chamber in 30-06 and 500 S&W.
Top Marlin lever action loads go up to 35-37.5k psi. I don't think these are a great idea in the H&R, but lots of people claim to use them.

Slow Powders? Slow for the 45/70, or slow in general?
I don't think you will see any large velocity gains with powders much slower than H4895 or maybe Varget. I would start with Reloader 7, it seems to work very well in a variety of 45/70 loads for me. The slowest powder I have used is H4895. In my 22" barrel the average velocity difference is only about 100fps. I found the slightly slower Reloader 7 loads to me more accurate.

Black Powder?
I went through a black powder phase a couple of years ago. There are LOTS of resources out there. I will send you a list of links when I get home form work. The 2 most important things I found were soft bullets and soft lube. You also have to get those soft sticky messes in the case without damaging them.

The great thing about single shot is you can load all sorts of crazy bullets that would never fit in a lever gun.

David

 

[Zeke Menuar]

Slow for the 45/70.

Not trying to slay Godzilla. Would like to get the best speed with the lowest pressure, or the best compromise of the two

ZM

 

[only1asterisk]

Zeke,

Sometimes too slow powders actually give reduced velocity. Varget seems to me the turning point. With lightweight bullets you may get some additional velocity, but the heavy bullet loads are slower than the faster powders can drive them. The limiting factor isn't pressure, it's case capacity.

David

 

[redneck2]

For BP

http://www.bpcr.net

 

[Harve Curry]

There is a web site for NEF H&R Handi rifles, but at the moment I cannot find it. Wealth of info there about loads, trigger work and accurizing. Try a search with the above word(s).

 

[1911 guy]

a long time ago

in a galaxy far far away, I reloaded BP in my 45/70. I used 70 gr. FFF, but I don't remember offhand what the bullet weight was, so you might want to check pressures before you just dump 70 gr. and bang away.