.45-70

[Kyle M.]

Does anyone have any pet loads for the good ol .45-70 with 405gr cast bullets that they'd like to share? These will be fired from an H&R buffalo classic. I've found alot of loads in manuals and online but I thought I'd ask anyways.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm shooting a 405gr bullet in my Springfield Trapdoor.

My favorite load is 34.0gr H4198 under that bullet. I have 2 other loads I shoot at times that are also accurate but my favorite is the H4198 load. The other 2 are 29.0gr AA5744 and 47.0gr IMR3031.

 

[Kyle M.]

I'm shooting a 405gr bullet in my Springfield Trapdoor.

My favorite load is 34.0gr H4198 under that bullet. I have 2 other loads I shoot at times that are also accurate but my favorite is the H4198 load. The other 2 are 29.0gr AA5744 and 47.0gr IMR3031.

Thanks I'm starting to believe that H4198 is the way to go from what I have found.

 

[joecil]

And for a nice target load with little recoil try 13 gr of Trailboss my favorite for that kind of shooting or 11 to 12 gr of Unique depending on who bullet. Both should be good for target but hunting would be as listed prior 4198 or 3031.

 

[TonyT]

I use 11.2 gr. Unique, WLR and a 405 gr. cast lead bullet. Nice mild load for our 50 yard buffalo shoots. You can almost see the bullet going downrange.

 

[JLDickmon]

I always used 50-ish grains of IMR3031 under a 405..

 

[upstech76]

2nd the IMR 3031 Powder.....

 

[Ric]

I have been using 25 grains do 2400 for a long time. Shoots great.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

My 1895 Marlin Cowboy rifle can easily handle "50ish" grains of IMR 3031 behind my 405 grain cast bullet, but my body does not care for that much of a bang on the shoulder. If I use my same cast bullet in 300 grain weight, "50ish" grains is a lot easier on the shoulder.

Actually, I have gotten to the point where I prefer shooting the 300 grainers since I am simply punching holes in paper.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[dprice3844444]

you using any filler in the cases?

 

[Clark]

http://westernbullet.com/ly4gr6.html
I cut fillers in .1" increments from the web, based to the SAAMI outside diameter of the case and the case wall thickness at that point.
I do it on RP cases.
I have filled 45/70 cases with steel and I have filled them with Aluminium.
I use loctite 601 to hold them in place.
Lyman #457130 ... 150 gr.
1 gr Red Dot or 1 gr Bullseye ~ 400 fps, sounds like a BB gun.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

When I bought that NEF handi rifle 45/70 at a gun show for $100 on 9-9-1999, I started calculating how much pressure it could take the same day.
To make a long story short, I validated those calculations a while later:

Quickload calculation of pressure and velocity with 405 gr Ardvark .459" flat point hard cast bullet with one lube band, Unique

shot 0) 15 gr, 24,700 psi, 1271 fps, no shot fired, listed for Quickload reference point only
shot 1) 18 gr, 33,217psi, 1403 fps, primer looks fine.
shot 2) 20 gr, 39,435 psi, 1485 fps, primer is fine
shot 3) 22 gr, 46,133 psi, 1563 fps, primer looks flat.
shot 4) 24 gr, 53,334 psi, 1637 fps, primer is flat.
shot 5) 26 gr, 61,067 psi, 1709 fps, primer is top hat and flowing, action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 6) 28 gr, 69,366 psi, 1778 fps, primer is top hat and flowing, case head expansion .001", action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 7) 30 gr, 78275 psi, 1846 fsp, case head expansion .0015" action popped open and case ejected on firing, some leading in the muzzle.
shot 8) 32 gr, 87,841 psi, 1911 fps, case head expansion .0025", case head separating where case head is flowing into the extractor, action popped open, some leading in the muzzle, and case ejected on firing, primer is spreading out .010"

There was a lot of Leading on the last two shots.

There was no change in headspace, but I had to stop the work up because of case head separation where the case head flowed into the extractor.

Reference loads:

1) "Loads for the 45/70" from the H.P.White laboratory via "American Rifleman" 1950~1968 via "NRA Handloader's Guide" 1969 says:
405 gr Rem S.P., 17.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 25,240 pounds pressure, for 1886 Win

2) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
400 gr cast, 16.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 27,000 cup, for 1886 Win

3) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
385 cast gr cast, 17.5 gr Unique, 1411 fps, 38,500 cup, for Ruger #1

I now realize the the popping open was probably because I was not holding the rifle, and there was acceleration on the latch lever.

 

[JLDickmon]

Hey folks,

My 1895 Marlin Cowboy rifle can easily handle "50ish" grains of IMR 3031 behind my 405 grain cast bullet, but my body does not care for that much of a bang on the shoulder. If I use my same cast bullet in 300 grain weight, "50ish" grains is a lot easier on the shoulder.

Actually, I have gotten to the point where I prefer shooting the 300 grainers since I am simply punching holes in paper.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

for that, a case full of Trail Boss would be more indicated..

 

[David Wile]

Hey JL,

My comment really had nothing to do with IMR 3031 vs. Trail Boss powder. My comment simply referred to the amount of powder used and its physical reaction to the weight of a bullet. In this particular case, I found 50 grains of IMR 3031 behind a 405 grain bullet to be uncomfortable to shoot. Using my 300 grain bullet over the same amount of powder, however, was quite fine for my taste. IMR 3031 is a good powder for the 45-70, but 50 grains of it with my 400 grain bullet has too much recoil for me.

Simply changing one's powder to Trail Boss would not have anything to do with felt recoil on different combinations of powder charges and bullet weights.

For my personal preferences, I like to choose a powder that at least half fills the case (or more) when charged. When the case is filled half way or more, you cannot double charge a case, and it makes it very easy to visually inspect the powder level in each case before seating bullets.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[JLDickmon]

Dave, point taken.

I suggested the Trail Boss as a 100% load density would mimic 70 grains of FFg.

For that matter, I used to load mine with N133 up to the point they were knocking on the door of a .458Win.

But as my moose hunting days are likely over, there's no need for the OP to crank them up that far..

 

[Kyle M.]

Both Hodgdon and Lyman list data for varget, and I've got about 5lbs of it because I also use it in my .375 H&H. I'm going to load a few with it and see how I like it, if it's not good enough I'll try some IMR 4198, I can't find anyone nearby who stocks IMR 3031. I'm just gonna be plinking at anywhere from 25-50 yards with this rifle so I don't need a super accurate load or anything real heavy. I'll shoot the .375 if I want something heavy.

 

[EMC45]

I killed 2 deer a few years back with 14.5gr. Unique under a 405gr. bullet. They died just fine. I also worked up a load with 50+ gr. Varget that was scary. It was all in a Handi.

 

[Jim Watson]

The folks I was shooting with the last couple of weekends mostly used 66-68 grains of FFg.

 

[Kyle M.]

I killed 2 deer a few years back with 14.5gr. Unique under a 405gr. bullet. They died just fine. I also worked up a load with 50+ gr. Varget that was scary. It was all in a Handi.

Scary as in tremendous recoil? I was gonna start with hodgdons recomended minimum 40.0grs of varget and work up from there.

 

[highlander 5]

The last time I shot my 45/70 I had loaded a 500 gr bullet behind 24 grs of 4227 and in my Shiloh Sharps and was accurate and very comfortable to shoot from the bench. I had a pratice load years go consisting of a 250 gr wadcutter and 20 grs of 2400,out to fifty yards it was very accurate. It was I like to call a nice squirell load.

 

[David Wile]

Hey Kyle,

That's one of the great things about the 45-70 in a modern rifle. You can load them heavy enough to shoot all the big game animals in Africa if that is where your interests are. I guess it must be close to ten years ago now that Vince Lupo shot the big five African animals with his Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun and some pretty heavy hitting loads. On the other hand, you can also load your cartridges down to such an extent they hardly do more than bump your shoulder as they go through both paper as well as thin skinned animals such as deer and elk. If you use a hard cast bullet, they will make two holes in the animal - one going in and one going out the other side. Also you don't have to worry about bullet expansion when going straight through an animal. At .45 caliber, that's a pretty big hole right from the start.

Now I'm not suggesting the 45-70 is the best caliber for every shooting purpose. Other cartridges can do many special things better than the 45-70. However, it is nice to realize how versatile the 45-70 can be with one's own tailor made ammo, and it kind of gives one a warm feeling when you also consider the 45-70 cartridge is nearing 150 years of age.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile