45 ACP weirdness

[IP1911]

Couple of reasons, one is that I thought that was taking the bell off it was .468 after sizing then .474 after expanding then back to 468. Second, that is right around were they started seating with correct headspace.

.468 or .469 seem I get this measurement across the crimp but I will assume a .001 tolerance is acceptable.

Tony

 

[2bfree]

Well, SAMMI specs are .473, I load mine at .471 to allow for variance. Over crimping can cause a slight, or major for that matter, bulge in the case. Depending on the case thickness this can vary.

 

[IP1911]

I ran another ten, this time with 5 different head stamps 2 of each.
Had one that would not seat not matter how much I crimped.

I set the crimp up with the adjustment backed all the way out put a sized bullet in the press and went to the highest point then lowered the crimp adjustment to were it touched the bullet. I then started the process of small turn ram up checking each time to see if it would seat in the barrel. It started seating at .469 to
.468 I ran the rest and ended up with one that will not seat. I tried crimping more until I thought it was just way to much compared to the others.

Funny thing is I ran the first 200 rounds no problems at all. Wonder if I have a bad die?

Tony

 

[kcofohio]

rcmodel may have taken the day off, but he would say to take a black sharpie and coat the offending cartridge with the marker. Then plunk the offending cartridge into the chamber and turn it to get some witness marks. Then you will have a better idea of what is causing your problem.

 

[IP1911]

I pulled the bullet on the one that would not seat, re-sized it and it seated fine.
I ran it again starting with no crimp eventually get down to where I crimped the others and it seated. I then pulled the bullet again as I wanted to see if there were any crimp marks on the bullet. There was some marks very light though. I sized it and ran it again, with a new bullet like the other times and it would not seat.

 

[2bfree]

rcmodel may have taken the day off, but he would say to take a black sharpie and coat the offending cartridge with the marker. Then plunk the offending cartridge into the chamber and turn it to get some witness marks. Then you will have a better idea of what is causing your problem.

this !

 

[IP1911]

Here is the culprit

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Here it is colored in

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and here it is after test fit

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looks to me like it is mostly on the bullet and a little on the case???

Tony

 

[RussellC]

It all depends on the bullet profile. I can seat Xtreme 230 RN to the SAAMI max of 1.275" in my Witness pistol. I have to seat the RMR 230 to 1.200", if I seat them to 1.220", they are touching the lands. If I seat the Xtreme to 1.200", the ogive is recessed inside the case mouth.

I see, gun specific. Both my .45 pistols are Glocks, and I generally find a Glock will plunk test a bullet longer than would ever work in a magazine!

Russellc

 

[Tcruse]

Make sure you clean you barrel really well, no lead, copper, or carbon build up. I suspect that you are not seating the bullet deep enough. The specs are a starting point not the ending point. Start out long, and keep using the searing die over until you get the depth so that the bullet drops in with the "plunk" sound. Actually, you might want to flare your brass a bit more, especially if the seater is having to straighten the bullet rather than the bullet sitting on the case straight up. Having recently fought feed problems with 200g FN bullets (not the 225 FN or 230 FMJ) the difference between being "100%" and many bad ones is not all that much.

 

[IP1911]

Tcruse,

The gun is fairly new only about 4 rounds through it from 5 range visits and cleaned after each one. I have run test groups from 1.20 - 1.70.

I just and another test of 10 random head stamps;
all cases measured, low .885 High .889
all cases seated properly after sizing
all die settings set to the same as the last 10 and I got 9 working out of that batch.
I seated to 1.25 this this test
got 4 working ones.

One thing I notices though on the ones that don't work it seems to get tighter on one side if you rotate the cartridge.


I will try a little more flare as you suggest and run another 10.

Thanks

Tony

 

[drband]

If the flare is not large enough and the seating die "straightens" the bullet while seating--may be your problem. Even though it looks straight at the finish, seating a crooked bullet is bound to leave the case out of round to some (small) degree. I vote for trying a larger bell (flare) before placing the bullet. Tiny adjustments!!!

 

[tcook90]

I ran into this yesterday loading RMR 230 gr Match grade. I ended up loading 190 rds to get 150 to plunk at 1.25". Pulling the bullet and putting another one in it's place worked on most of them (eliminating case issues). If I shortened the non-plunkers to 1.19", they worked.

Ends up that the profile of the bullets varies ALOT. The ones that plunked measured .446" just above the case, the ones that wouldn't were .450". I still have about 750 of these bullets left, so I'm not sure if I'll rework the loads for 1.19", or use the ones that don't plunk in my revolver.

 

[Toprudder]

Try seating the RMR bullets to 1.200" and see what happens.

Oops, I went back and read where you tried that already. I can tell you that anything over 1.220" will NOT plunk in my barrel.

 

[Conservidave]

The pistol is a 1911 and shouldn't have a problem chambering a RN bullet. If a factory cartridge will feed his reloads should as well. This chamber must have some really tight tolerances.
It is odd that 8 out of 10 rounds feed with out any problems but 2 wont, somethings missing......

 

[IP1911]

ok it turns out to be the bullets :banghead:

I was out and about so stopped and picked up some Hornady 230 FMJ RN which turned out to be much tighter tolerance's than the RMR ones. I just ran a 100 through and 8 did not seat right, I re-crimped just a tad tighter they seated.

Tony

 

[BigBore45]

Check your brass length. They head space off the case mouth. It was not the bullets, a Lee factory crimp die that you said you tried would have swaged the bullet to fit.

 

[IP1911]

well I changed nothing but the bullets and it is working.
Also all every bullet I made that did not seat everyone of the brass seated fine after sizing, plunked perfect. All brass was within specs as I stated below in an earlier post.

 

[IP1911]

Bigbore,

I tried some of the other bullets again and the same thing, could the swaged part of the die be off and the Hornady bullet are in tolerance and don't need swaged?

Tony

 

[Blue68f100]

You should not swadge a bullet at all. If you do, your loosing neck tension. That is the BIG negative of the LFCD. Best to learn how to set thing up with out using one. You will produce a lot better round in the long run ++++ the knowledge needed to correct thing once problems pop up.

 

[Mad Chemist]

IP1911,

You did the sharpie test and it confirmed that the bullet was hitting the rifling. SEAT THEM DEEPER!

No amount of crimp will fix your problem. The Lee FCD is a huge nuisance to new reloaders because it causes more problems than it usually solves.

Look up bullet ogive. This is what is giving you a headache. The RMR bullets have a fatter ogive than the Hornady ones. There is no uniform spec for bullet profile, some bullet designs are more pointed others are more blunt.

You would be wise to set your OAL short enough to accommodate most bullet profiles. You want to develop a "working" OAL that matches the bullets you are using to the dimensions of your chamber. Leave enough wiggle room for variance. It's a 1911 not a precision match rifle. There is no need to seat near the max OAL.

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Pistol/45 Automatic.pdf

Note the SAAMI range for OAL. Min = 1.190" Max=1.275"

You are seating near max. You have been crimping the cartridges so tightly that you are swaging the bullets and are no longer headspacing on the case mouth. Seat the bullets deeper and get rid of that Lee FCD die.

 

[2bfree]

When you are in a bar but don't think your drunk but 10 people in the bar tell you your drunk and to sit down, you probably are.
You can blame a bad die, bullet or case, but chances are it is something you are doing wrong.

 

[IP1911]

lol I understand that

So Tell me what I am doing wrong

I just ran 25 through with the hornady all seated right, I then grabbed a few of ""the bullets"" and ran them, they would not seat. I did reset the crimp die, I started where it wouldn't crimp at all and very very slowly I kept adjusting it down and raising the ram and checking the seating each time I made an adjustment. I went way past were I was crimping with the Hornady's to point it looked like it was rolling over the edge and still would not seat. I reset the die to the Hornady bullets and everything is fine.

Just not sure where I am going wrong.

Tony

 

[2bfree]

Take an unsized case and push a bullet in enough to get it started. Push that in your barrel until the case mouth seats. Take it out and measure the oal, that will be your max oal. When loading subtract .010/.015 from that. All bullets are not the same. Also I think if you measure the RMR the diameter will be slightly larger, they are plated not FMJ as you stated you were loading. Not all bullet work well with all chambers and over crimping will not help but make things worse.

 

[BigBore45]

i didn't say it was the crimp. I was stating that if it were the bullets being out of tolerance the lfcd would have made them work. Your COAL is too long most likely.

 

[wlkjr]

You said "it looked like it was rolling over the edge and still would not seat" I'm not experienced enough but that sounds like a roll crimp. Have you tried a different crimp die? On the ones that won't seat, I would take the bullet apart and see if the case would seat by itself. Sounds like the brass is getting compressed ever so slightly. I too load for a Glock and my understanding is that they are chambered a little looser, so I have not experienced any problems.