45 acp on the heavy side

[Ohen Cepel]

May be worth it to look into the 45 Super if your Smith will handle that. I found it interesting to get a 45 going a faster but still stay subsonic.
The brass is a bit thicker if that is a gain for you also.

 

[jmorris]

Thinking about pushing 230 gr FMJ RN at less than 1000 fps.

Most 45 ACP load data will be pushing a 230 gn RN FMJ <1000 fps. Just pick a load for a powder you have.

As far as hotrodding, I spent countless hours as a kid getting the most I could out of stuff, right up to the edge. So I understand the mindset but now that I am older, instead of taking a 357 magnum and loading it up to 41 magnum levels, I just get one of my 44 magnums and download them to 41 levels.

 

[fxvr5]

The cylinder/barrel gap in a revolver may reduce velocity a tiny amount when compared to a test barrel or unvented barrel ? Only the chronograph knows.

Maybe. Or not.
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/revolver-vs-semiautomatic-pistol-a-ballistic-oddity/360682

 

[Bcwitt]

Not if you can get that performance from what you have.

That kind of performance will batter the slide against the front of the frame. Soon you will not be able to remove the slide because the frame has mushroomed like a cold chisel head. Maximum loads are not to be exeeded.

 

[fxvr5]

That kind of performance will batter the slide against the front of the frame. Soon you will not be able to remove the slide because the frame has mushroomed like a cold chisel head.

How many rounds does that take? How many instances of this have been documented? Can you point me to those sources? Thanks.

Believe it or not, one can prep a gun for heavier recoil ammo with a stronger recoil spring (and other stuff) to reduce/prevent excessive battering. See the Enforcer article (post #8) for more information.

Maximum loads are not to be exeeded.

No one said to exceed maximum loads. Enforcer can push a 230 grain bullet to 1,000 fps and stay within standard operating pressures - not even into +P territory.

 

[STI]

The classic question from a customer starting to load that came in our store was "How hot can I load it?" Saw and heard that many times, replied why not just get a larger gun? They make loading books for a reason, "You need one bad!"

 

[Bcwitt]

How many rounds does that take? How many instances of this have been documented? Can you point me to those sources? Thanks.

Believe it or not, one can prep a gun for heavier recoil ammo with a stronger recoil spring (and other stuff) to reduce/prevent excessive battering. See the Enforcer article (post #8) for more information.



No one said to exceed maximum loads. Enforcer can push a 230 grain bullet to 1,000 fps and stay within standard operating pressures - not even into +P territory.

I know so because I have done so. I do not care what you do.

 

[mdi]

Starline 45 acp brass https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-auto-plusp-brass

Oops. sorry, already posted above .

Yes, a major (?) faux pas on my part. One manufacturer makes one cartridge case a bit stronger and designates it "+P". (and considering 45 ACP pressures, I think it's just a marketing ploy)

I have used max loads of Universal and Bullseye, as experiments, in standard 45 ACP brass (IIRC Blazer Brass). 230 gr, FMJ. When experimenting with high charges, I measure case head diameter before and after firing. No bulging of case body, no increase of case head/rim diameter...

 

[fxvr5]

Yes, a major (?) faux pas on my part. One manufacturer makes one cartridge case a bit stronger and designates it "+P". (and considering 45 ACP pressures, I think it's just a marketing ploy)

Have you measured the capacity or wall thickness of other manufacturers' standard and +P version of the same caliber cases? Please share that data with us. Thanks.

It has nothing to do with whether a cartridge has a high or low maximum pressure limit. It's about whether a manufacturer's cases used for standard loads will handle the extra pressure of +P loads. This is especially important in semi-auto guns since they can vary with how much of the case is supported by chamber/feed ramp dimensions of their barrels. Since this can vary across different gun makers, making the +P brass thicker at the head increases the safety margin.

Another method to strengthen the case is to make a 'denser grain structure' and 'special heat treat process' to 'enhance the durability of the case'.

45 Auto cases can, and do, bulge in the unsupported region. Examples can be found with a google search. Glock 45s have a reputation for a large unsupported chamber region.

 

[CWTISME]

If it helps here is the Triton data for 45 super. Please note this is using 45 super brass which is thicker in the web area. I have alway shot this in a 1911 made for it.Honestly it is a hand full and I normally shoot 45 acp and save the 45 super for hunting. I would check with the manufacturer

 

[CrossTrainer]

Thanks to all for your input. My 625 - 4" barrel is one of my favorites and I certainly don't intend to damage it for the sake of a little fun. Taking all under advisement, I'll proceed will caution. Happy safe reloading.
Blessings

 

[Bcwitt]

Not if you can get that performance from what you have.

. Not sure what your intentions are, but I hope the wrong person does not injure themselves due to your presumptuous approach to our sport. That is not an opinion. That is a fact.

 

[fxvr5]

Not sure what your intentions are, but I hope the wrong person does not injure themselves due to your presumptuous approach to our sport. That is not an opinion. That is a fact.

The point here is that as handloaders we can sometimes safely get faster speeds than normal by selecting the right gunpowder. With a 45 Auto, one can get 230 grain bullets to 1,000 fps with Enforcer (see the link in post #8), and still remain within standard operating pressure - not even going to +P pressures.

Enforcer also produces high speed in the 45 Auto with lighter bullets, too.

This applies to other cartridges as well. Of the one's I'm aware of, one can get much faster than normal speeds in the 38 Super and 9mm, with the right selection of gunpowder. For example, the usual factory 38 Super load pushes a 130 grain bullet to 1,215 fps, and some companies load 124/5 grain bullets to 1,350 fps. But one can push 130 grain bullets to near 1,400 fps and 124/5 grain bullets to 1,450 fps with N105, and stay within normal operating pressure.

Using the right gunpowder can make a big difference in performance. Thus, one does not always need to 'use a more powerful cartridge' to get the performance you want. Check different load manuals to see what you can get with the cartridge you have.

 

[BW460]

Which 625 do you have? I first bought the J.M. not knowing that is has shallow grooves. Sold it and bought the performance center. Love it. I shoot a lot of lead in the auto rim cases. I like 250 gr swc bullets over a good dose of power pistol. I wouldn't shoot anything hotter than +p in regular brass. Loads for shooting out of the revolver can be much different than an auto loader. No offense to those who only have an auto loader but... what you "know" may not be relevant. For example, there is no problem at all dropping 45 Super rounds into the 625. BTW, I have just about every toy , or something similar, you can imagine. As long as it is within published values, load what you want. Power Pistol will likely give you the highest velocities.

 

[The Glockodile]

May be worth it to look into the 45 Super if your Smith will handle that. I found it interesting to get a 45 going a faster but still stay subsonic. The brass is a bit thicker if that is a gain for you also.

Probably the best option for “hot” .45 ACP loads...

Nice cases, no need to load them to full .45 Super pressures.

 

[derek45]

I would like some feedback re heavier 45 acp loads I'd like to try in my S&W 625.
Thinking about pushing 230 gr FMJ RN at less than 1000 fps. Info to date suggests using
+P cases (none to be had these days). What problems might I incur using standard cases?
Thank, as always, for the insights.
Blessings

Years ago, I emailed S&W asking if I could shoot 45SUPER in my 5" 625

I expected a lawyer reply, but they said -- "yes, it's an N-frame, same as our 44mag, so it should be fine"

I worked up a load with a 230gr Speer Gold Dot at about 1150fps.

I used 45SUPER load data, and 45ACP brass, since there is no exposed feedramp on a sixgun.

It was a wonderful deer hunting gun, quiet, and easy to load in the dark with MOONCLIPS

like a fool, I traded it off, thinking I could always buy another, but IDPA rules changed to 4" only and Smith stopped making the wonderful 5"


TL;DR -- find some 45SUPER data.

 

[jmorris]

I expected a lawyer reply, but they said -- "yes, it's an N-frame, same as our 44mag, so it should be fine"

The wall thickness between the chamber and outside of the cylinder is thinner on my 45ACP S&W revolvers vs my 44 magnum S&W ones. That would be my area of concern, not the frame.