45 ACP or 44 SPL (for my wife)

[jford1]

My wife and I have been looking for a home defense and target gun for her. My rifles and shotguns turn her off and the only guns that she’s willing to shoot with me are my pistols. I’m trying to act only as a consultant to her selection and we’ve narrowed the choice to a large framed S&W revolver in 45 ACP or 44 spl. I have taken my wife to several gun shops/shows and had her shoot my USP 45, 629 6.5 inch 44, and 640 357. She likes 38s out of the 640 but the frame is two small for her hands, likes 44 spls out of the 629 but 54.5 oz. is too heavy, and hates the USP all together. I’ve concluded that a medium to large frame four-inch revolver (~40 oz.) would be just about right. She like’s the size and weight of a 40 oz. 686 she saw in a store and other than the weight of my 629 has been quite happy shooting it. We both feel that the 640 recoils more with 38s than the 629 does with 44 spls and I don’t have much confidence in 35 cal rounds unless they have a lot of velocity behind them. She doesn’t like the blast from anything supersonic so a 44 or 45 cal at 850-900fps seems like a great choice.

My question is if in a similarly sized gun (625 or 629 four-inch [both ~40 oz.]) will the 45 ACP recoil the same as 44 spl?

She is afraid of the USP because of both the recoil and the automatic action. She feels more in control of a revolver but will not believe me that the two cartridges are about equivalent on paper. I know that the ACP has faster burning powder but I can’t imagine that it would make that big of a difference. I would rather not have to buy hard to find and relatively expensive 44 spl ammo when I could just get 45 ACP.

 

[azredhawk44]

reloading ACP into moonclips will be a pain in the butt for someone who isn't a "gunny", IMO.

I'd go with 44special and just handload 500-1000 rounds a year for her to practice with and use as defensive loads.

 

[BullfrogKen]

jford1 said: My question is if in a similarly sized gun (625 or 629 four-inch [both ~40 oz.]) will the 45 ACP recoil the same as 44 spl?

I have trouble telling the difference.

Why not let her have a .38 if that's what she likes? If you want to have any hope of her practicing with it, she's going to have to like it, and like it a lot more than you. Lots of women just don't want to focus on the "I won't own it if it won't kill a fella" mentality. Let her have that 686 if she likes it.


If you don't give her the freedom to go through the buying process by herself, she won't own the gun; you will. Its merely going to be a gun you picked out for her, or pushed her into. Would you want to buy a car like that? Or, have your own gun, or caliber, picked out for you by someone else? Even if he meant well?

No rule says she can't own several. I'm sure you've gone through several hanguns, and you've evolved. Allow her that learning process, too.

 

[Jim Watson]

A S&W M625 .45 ACP 4" barrel is cataloged at 43 oz and seems to fit your process of elimination.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...ted=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15706

A 625 Mountain gun with tapered barrel would weigh less, 38 or 40 oz but you would have to look for one on the secondary market, it is not in their current www catalog.

There is a wide variety of .45ACP ammunition on the market for the non-handloader. I would expect common 230 grain full charge hardball as you would find at Walmart or the 230 grarin defense hollowpoints to have more recoil than the very mild .44 Special. But she doesn't have to shoot that all the time, there are lighter loads.

 

[jford1]

Well like all things—it’s complicated. My wife insists on me getting the pistol permit and that I use my spending money to buy her a gun. She wants to shoot with me but does not want to spend her money or go through the legal hassle. I have been fortunate enough this year to afford several guns for myself and set aside money to get her what she wants. If we get a 686 she will only shoot 38s and she is just as comfortable shooting 44 spls which are a much more effective defense round. She is really more afraid of the muzzle blast than the recoil: hence not liking long guns. I have been assisting her shopping and shooting for months now and am pretty sure that either ~40 oz. 38 or 44 spl would be just fine for her. I originally thought my 640 would be perfect but I didn’t anticipate her long fingers. I was pleasantly surprised about her comfort shooting 44 spls and she actually preferred them. I have since sold my 640 due to the fact that neither one of us was comfortable with it. I didn’t like the round and she didn’t like the frame size. I would also prefer to have just 45 and 44 ammo to buy with my ammo funds. A four-inch 625 or 629 is ~14 oz. lighter than my 6.5 inch 629—heavy enough to lighten the recoil, long enough to reduce the blast, and large enough for her long fingers. I don’t have to get her a gun but I want her to be able to go with me even if it’s just a few times a year. I also like the fact that she would have a gun that she is comfortable with if she ever needs one.

 

[pax]

If ammo funds are an issue, I'd think that would push you even more toward that 686.

pax

 

[DogBonz]

+1

reloading ACP into moonclips will be a pain in the butt for someone who isn't a "gunny", IMO.

I'd go with 44special and just handload 500-1000 rounds a year for her to practice with and use as defensive loads

 

[Sniper X]

I'd actually get her to shoot a GP100 in .357 mag. That round is not only great for home defense and hunting (light duty hunting) but cheap to shoot with .38spl. It has a better first shot knock down record than .45acp or .44 spl as well. I am a .45 auto guy but allways suggest .357 mag revolvers for my students who ask the same questions about what to get for their GF or wife when the lady of the house wants a gun. Hey, by the way, you are a lucky man your wife wants a gun! More and more these days the feminine member of the relationship is brainwashed into thinking the hype about guns being bad is growing....we need to keep our ladies from watching "The View"!

 

[lesjones]

Between the .44 Special and .45 ACP I'd go for the .45 ACP. Ammo's cheaper and there's more choices. Moonclips are no big deal, esp. with the plastic Rimz clips.

A K or L frame .357/.38 might make more sense, though.

 

[jford1]

I already have 44 mag and 45 ACP ammo for my other guns. If a 45 is not much different than a 44 spl it is a lot cheaper for me to just stock two types instead of three—four if I get her a 686.

I’m really looking to get some input from people who have shot 45 ACP and 44 spl revolvers. They are similar rounds once the bullet is in the air but they do it different ways. Is the perceived recoil more from the 45 because of the short case and faster powder or is it subdued buy the weight of the revolver? I have only shot 45s in my auto and 44s in my revolver.

 

[Gewehr98]

Is she recoil-sensitive?

She likes the .44 Special round, which really is no slouch in the defensive cartridge category. That's good, low recoil with a big .44 bullet, you just need to find the right package to launch it.

My stainless steel S&W 696 packs 5 rounds of .44 Special in a small 3" L-Frame revolver, weighing around 36 ounces. The gun is very handy, and recoil is quite manageable with 200-240gr ammo, but some folks pooh-pooh the missing 6th round capacity. To me, if you can't get the job done with 5 rounds, you need a better Plan "B".

The only problem with the 696 is that it garners unbelievable resale prices these days since S&W discontinued it after a very short production run.

Taurus made a similar 5-shot revolver in .44 Special that's more affordable.

For even less weight, but more recoil, there's also the S&W 296 and 396 lightweight alloy L-Frame revolvers, again, 5-shots of .44 Special.

There are no L-Frame .45 ACP revolvers. My 625 N-Frame in .45 ACP kicks a hair less than my L-Frame 696, but it's also considerably more massive.

 

[Sniper X]

To directly answer that queston, a .44 spl is lighter in felt recoil than a .45acp for factory ammo. In that .45 auto is a sharper recoil, .44 spl is more of a push. .45 auto is cheaper to shoot and not that bad at recoil even for a lady so in my opinion go with the .45 and get her to shoot a lot and get used to it. In an intruder situation she won;t notce recoil anyway!

 

[ugaarguy]

Taurus did offer several models that are approx L Frame sized with 5 shot cylinders in 45 Colt & 45 ACP. I believe 44 Special was offered as well. Most if not all have been discontinued. The Taurus 4410, which is roughly L frame cylinder width, but lengthened to shoot .410 bore shot shells as well, is still offered by Taurus. Edit: To Clarify the 4410 is chambered in 45 Colt / .410 Bore, not 45 ACP.

If you have deep pockets S&W made a very limited number of the model 696. The 696 is essentially a 5 shot 44 Special version of the 686. Beware, it does have a cult following though, and the last one I saw on guns america was priced at over $700.

The Taurus offerings should cost much less. Howver, Taurus has the annoying habbit of porting nearly every revolver they make :banghead: . So it may take a little searching to find one without the ports to meet your wife's low muzzle blast requirement.

Lastly, I would not rule out the .38 S&W Special Cartridge. It has been quite effective at protecting folks the world over since 1899. Lets not forget guns with post war (WWII) metallurgy that handle the cartridge in +P form with aplomb, and all the advances in hollow point ammo over the last thirty or so years. Factor in it's light recoil, quick follow up shots, and mild report; the venerable old .38 Special is still a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Plink]

I think your logic for your choice of calibers is good. I use .45 ACP for home defense and personal carry (I carried .44 spl for years too). Not because I think it's much more effective than any other good self defense caliber. I choose it because it's a low pressure round. If anyone has ever touched off a high pressure round in an enclosed area, then they know why.

I'd like to say that performance between the two are similar, but realistically, you have a wider variety of effective loads in .45 ACP. If you handload, then that's not a criteria. The big issue here is would she be comfortable using moon clips or not? I think that loading a revolver with a full moon clip is fast and instinctive, but some folks disagree.

 

[jford1]

I appreciate everyone’s input but she PREFERES the 44 spl in a big gun to a 38 spl in a small one. Those were her words. Yes a 38 in a big gun will have even less recoil but if she can shoot a 44 then more power to her. She is a better shot than I am! Recoil does not make her flinch but noise and muzzle blast scare the crap out of her. I think that the slower burning powder and subsonic velocities of the 44 spl are what makes it comfortable for her. If the 45 is sharper she might not like it.

 

[jford1]

Why are moon clips so hard to use? I've never used them.

 

[wdlsguy]

Since she prefers to shoot .44 special in a big gun, get her a .44 magnum, and have her shoot .44 special ammo.

 

[Jim Watson]

Regular steel moonclips require that you SNAP! each shell into its notch, then POP! the empties out. No big problem, there are tools made for insertion and removal that make the process simple. And clips are cheap enough that you could sit around evenings and preload enough for the weekend's shooting.
http://www.moonclips.com/index.htm

Or get the Rimz which are flexible plastic, load and unload barehanded
http://www.ezmoonclip.com/
(Although I gave my friend some for Christmas and he says they are too floppy for competition.)

 

[Wedge]

I would get the .44 Special.

 

[crebralfix]

Don't buy a gun just because of the (removeable) grips! The stocks on the revolver can be changed. Ahrends Tactical Revolver stocks did wonders for me for my S&W N-Frame (over the cheesy Hogue rubber grips). I liked them so much, I purchased their Retro Target stocks! Comfy and beautiful....

If I were you, I'd find a dealer that has different stocks and go try them out on different revolvers.

She may like the Ruger SP101 or GP-100. The stocks are slightly different than the S&W and Taurus ones. You get to shoot 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Try the 110 grain 357s; they're very manageable.

You may want to look around at a used Dan Wesson revolver, if they're available.

 

[DC3-CVN-72]

" .45 ACP or .44 SPL"

This a is choice I once had to make. Any will do the job well. The choice I had to make was what platform to use. the guns to chose from were any of my 1911's in .45 ACP or my SMITH & WESSON 629-4 3 in. bbl. in .44 MAG. I load all my 1911's with Remington .45 ACP 230gr. GSHP and for the S&W 629-4 it would be loaded with CCI. Blazer .44 S&W SPL 200gr.GDHP. I went with the S&W 629-4 only because it is a revolver. when I am half asleep and someone is trying to kill me in bed all I want to have to do is pull the trigger untill the person stops. I ruled out the .38 S&W SPL because I wanted the bigger hole. .357 MAG and .44 MAG wer also ruled out because I did not want to suffer any hearing loss or accidently shoot my neighbor. You can't go wrong with either.

 

[ugaarguy]

Jford,

Very cool that she prefers the .44 Special. The Taurus models I mentioned are akin to Gewehr98's 696 in being medium framed like the 686, so not small by any stretch, but not big like an N Frame 629 or 625 that you said she found a bit heavy. Also, the 45 Colt is the old US Cavalry revolver round (commonly called 45 Long Colt / 45 LC), and not a 45 ACP. Much like the 44 Spc. it's a low pressure round that sends a heavy bullet at moderate velocity. In fact the 45 ACP was designed to replicate the 45 Colt in a smaller package. The 625 & 625 Mountain Guns have been chambered in 45 Colt on and off in different runs by S&W. Cowboy Action Shooting has lead to a resurgence of the round making it easier pretty easy to get. It's a round worth looking into. Though already owning 44 Spcs. sticking with that round would simplify ammo supply.

Lastly, since you shoot big bores almost exclusively, you'd do well to start handloading. Large diameter straight wall cases - like 44 Spec, 45 Colt, and 45 ACP - are easy to reload. The savings of hand loading big bores are also much greater than those of smaller cartridges when comparing both to commercial ammo. Start loading rounds with the JHP you use for defense to replicate the factory load for practice and your savings go up more. I do have to be honest, you wont really save any money, you'll just shoot much more for the same money. Either way it's a good situation.

 

[hkenvy91]

i say go with the 44 special its a great load!i often carry a S&W 629 dressed in a three inch barrel.but i also carry a usp45c more!really u cant lose either way.i can see moon clips as an advantage.

 

[joneb]

+ another one for the S&W 696 nd, but you might check out the Ruger Alaskan .44 mag. it might be cheaper . I would like to find a .45 acp revolver, the moon clips are...well

 

[Hook686]

If this will be "HER GUN ", why are you calling the shots (pardon the pun) ? The 4" 686 is a fine revolver. If she likes it, she might practice with it. It might then save her life, or yours. She can try 145 grain Winchester Silver Tip Hollow Points. These shoot at about 1200 fps, in my 4" 686. If these are too recoil rough on her, try the speer 135 grain Short Barrel Gold Dot Hollow Points. These can be had at about 900+ fps.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/ReloadingSupplementalDATA/38s135GD.pdf



If she will practice with this round, how do you, or her lose ?