.45 acp revolver buy the s&w or wait for the pitbull

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Upstater

Upstater

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Here's the question should I buy the S&W .45 acp revolver right away or should I wait for the possible release of the Charter Arms .45 Pitbull. Obviously cost could play a role but maybe quality is more important wat do you wheel gunners think?
 
You are thinking that the Charter Arms will be better than the Smith and Wesson? That would surprise me greatly. I like Charter Arms but their niche is in offering value to shooters on a budget and across the board for quality I would unhesitatingly say Smith & Wesson, even with current S&W standards not being the equal of the vintage or classics.
 
^
No , I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused in no way whatsoever am I thinking CA are better than S&W, are they even close in quality (seriously asking)? It really more than likely is boiling down to the price for me, if that helps. But if the quality was that much greater price could be less of a concern.
 
If you can afford the Smith you will be happier over the long run, if the price difference is important, IMO the current production Charters will serve effectively and reliably. It comes down to a budgetary matter as most all things eventually do. If budget says Charter Arms I personally would go that route without looking back and if I could realisticly afford it, It's the Smith.
 
Upstater said:
^
No , I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused in no way whatsoever am I thinking CA are better than S&W, are they even close in quality (seriously asking)? It really more than likely is boiling down to the price for me, if that helps. But if the quality was that much greater price could be less of a concern.
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You can always go with a good used Smith which might work out to be close in price to a new Charter Arms revolver. I'm a big fan of the S&W N frame line. I think there are no better revolver in production today than the N frames.
 
rswartsell said:
You betcha, and I was happy with a CA .44 spl. Bulldog for years. I'm hearing good things about current production CA too.
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Charter Arms is back to it's old glory because the Ecker family is back at the company. They went through a few incarnations, all not very good especially the Charter Arms 2000 ownership. Today their revolvers are again top shelf although I like the S&W revolvers better, especially the older Smiths.

Just a side, Charter Arms was the company that developed the crossbar safety but refused to patten the idea claiming it was their responsibility to give that safety to the rest of the makers. Gota love that kind if dedication to safety from any company.
 
Well, here's a little to temper the good things about current CA quality:
I have a 18-month old .357 mag. Mag Pug:
The trigger is awful, if you wish to rate it. It's gritty on SA, has the "stacking" on DA (and the grittiness). The ported barrel may help with muzzle flip, but prevents the use of "snake shot".
The front sight is WAY too high, causing major low groups. So bad that I had to machine down my front sight myself in order to get it to hit paper at 25 feet.
The "middle" screw in the frame loosens and requires retightening about every 25 rounds.
All in all, it was worth the money IF one considers it a seldom-used weapon of last resort.
Would I ever buy another CA? NO!
 
The Charter is much better than the Smith for EDC. The Smith will be more fun to shoot.
What you should get is largely dictated by your intended use of it.
I could make arguments for each, but only you know what you intend to do with it.
 
beag_nut said:
Well, here's a little to temper the good things about current CA quality:
I have a 18-month old .357 mag. Mag Pug:
The trigger is awful, if you wish to rate it. It's gritty on SA, has the "stacking" on DA (and the grittiness). The ported barrel may help with muzzle flip, but prevents the use of "snake shot".
The front sight is WAY too high, causing major low groups. So bad that I had to machine down my front sight myself in order to get it to hit paper at 25 feet.
The "middle" screw in the frame loosens and requires retightening about every 25 rounds.
All in all, it was worth the money IF one considers it a seldom-used weapon of last resort.
Would I ever buy another CA? NO!
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BUT, how old is that revolver? Was it bought during those years when QC was not even thought about? The current management has only been back for a little over 3 years if I can remember correctly...
 
Absolutely love my 625 and would highly recommend it to others.

I had been thinking about them for a while then a lgs had 2 used models in stock a 4" and 5" both for $525 each, was able to talk them down on the 4" model to $450 because it had a lot of light scratches on the barrel and cyl. Was able to use a regular scotchbright sponge the yellow with rough green back ones and used the green backside to lightly rub the finish and it made all the scratches unnoticeable and the gun looks brand new. So, if searching for one don't overlook the cosmetically blemished as they can be easily fixed but save you money in the process.
 
Quote:
BUT, how old is that revolver? Was it bought during those years when QC was not even thought about? The current management has only been back for a little over 3 years if I can remember correctly...
__________________
Like I said but didn't make clear, it's 18 months (actually less) old. Still have work to do in-house.
 
Am I the only one who sees the White Elephant in the CARR design?: Unless I'm missing something, you have to load the rounds individually. :confused: :scrutiny:

One of the big advantages to rimless rounds in a revolver is reload speed using moonclips. Unless I am missing something, CA latched onto a relatively small issues with moonclips, and developed a "solution" that's worse than the "problems". And neither they, nor the video reviews I've watched actually show the gun being loaded, so I'm really smelling a rat now. :scrutiny:

The other issue I have with the system is reliability: First, each of those pins in the ejector look spring-loaded, and springs can & will break. Also, the ejector area in a revolver is a pretty dirty place, so I'm concerned about the spring-loaded pin's sensitivity to crud. Finally, as the round is fired, the case is pushed back - normally against the recoil shield, which reseats the primer. In the CARR system, the fired case looks like it's retained by the pin in the ejector, so it takes up a lot of that force - how long can it do so until it develops issues? And if the case doesn't hit the back of the recoil shield when fired, what's resetting the primer? A primer that doesn't reset can certainly affect the action, or even tie the gun up.

No matter the maker, then, when it comes to rimless revolvers, I think I'll KISS and stick to moonclips.
 
The other issue I have with the system is reliability: First, each of those pins in the ejector look spring-loaded, and springs can & will break. Also, the ejector area in a revolver is a pretty dirty place, so I'm concerned about the spring-loaded pin's sensitivity to crud. Finally, as the round is fired, the case is pushed back - normally against the recoil shield, which reseats the primer. In the CARR system, the fired case looks like it's retained by the pin in the ejector, so it takes up a lot of that force - how long can it do so until it develops issues? And if the case doesn't hit the back of the recoil shield when fired, what's resetting the primer? A primer that doesn't reset can certainly affect the action, or even tie the gun up.
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Isn't this the same mechanism as their current .40S&W revolver? Does anyone have one of those, to comment on MrBorland's concerns? I would be curious to hear.
 
I've heard people rave about the lock-up on the Charters.

I read where a guy bought a Model 617 from Buds and the barrel was canted...
 
It really doesn't matter what brand of gun you buy some will be unsatisfactory. All we can do is select a brand that has decent quality control.

The Charter Mag Pug is on the short list of weapons to replace my P-3AT. I am not a fan of DAO. But I am sure it will deliver five 357 rounds on target at point blank range.
 
The correct answer (isn't it obvious to everyone else?) is to immediately pester Ruger into making a trimmed-down (lighter, smoother) fixed-sight Redhawk in .45 Colt, with a .45 ACP conversion cylander. Now, if not sooner.
 
I love shooting my SS&W 22-4 more than most of my autos. There is just something about not having to Chase brass around like i do with my autos that is appealing to me. Plus moonclips are great. I have never shot a Charter so i cannot provide a comparison. But as others said if your budget will allow it by the Smith otherwise buy what you can afford and don't second guess yourself.
 
I guess you have to ask yourself what are going to do with it. Are you wanting the novelty of a gun that shoots .45 acp that you'll shoot a few times each year, or do you want an absolute range beast that can take thousands of rounds a year?

I have a few charters...the newer ones, and mine have been fine. I also have a 4" 625 JM that has seen about 5000 rounds through it in the last two years. I plan on getting the .45 Charter when it comes out. It will be compact and relatively light. I would never strap the 625 to my hip to serve in a defensive roll. The Charter will.
 
You did not say what the primary use of the gun will be. If it is for range/target use, I would definitely buy either a S&W model 25 or 625. They are very accurate and have great actions. If primarily for self defense, then I might let price enter the equation. However, the S&W is superior to Charter for whatever purpose you intend to use it for.
 
Yes, I believe it will mostly be target practice Abe shoot up some over all length (to long) reloads if I ever had any, novelty pece to go with the 1911. Really nothing to out of the ordinary.
 
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