45 Auto: Comparing Small vs Large Primers and other observations

[Tony k]

I've been reloading reloading for almost a year now, and I'd like to throw a couple observations about .45 auto out there for comment.

Here's the load I've been using since april:
Extreme Bullets 230gr Plated LRN
5.0 gr 700x
CCI small pistol primers (No.500) or Winchester WLP as appropriate for the case
Many different case brands, all trimed to .890"
OAL 1.26 (kinda long)
Firearm: Taurus PT1911
I've loaded and fired more than 1500 rounds of this load

1) I like the small pistol primers because the gun, cases, and primer pockets are noticeably cleaner after firing than with the large primers;however, the large primers generate noticably more recoil and hit the steel targets with more authority. For SD/HD, I'll stick to large primers for a little extra punch. For range sessions I'll use mostly small pistoll primer cases for easier cleaning.

2) 700x is a good powder that meters just fine (despite the way it "feels" in the powder thrower). Plus, it's an inexpensive powder ($15/lb compared to the $27 I paid for a pound of Powerpistol).

3) I use RCBS carbide dies and a Lee Factory Crimp die. I started out seating and taper-crimping in one operation with just the RCBS dies. The results were a failure to feed about every 200 rounds. I've since switched to taper crimping with in a fourth step using a Lee factory crimp die. As a result, I can't reember the last time I had a failure to feed or any type of malfuction. Plus, I' pretty sure the Lee Factory crimp has improved the overall consistency/accuracy.

Anyway, just my observations.

 

[jmorris]

I don't use 700x but I loaded up a batch of test rounds using 230g RN bullets in small primer cases and large primer cases with both large and small flash hole sizes, using Clays and Winchester primers and there was no big difference. The large flash hole, large primer group had a slightly lower SD but that was about it.

 

[Tony k]

Hmm...I hadn't considered small vs large flash holes.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I have found no difference between small pistol primed and large pistol primed .45 acp brass on paper. They both hit to the same point of aim.

Across the chronograph, the same loads result in about 25 fps +/- less for the small pistol primed brass, but the SD is smaller with SP primers, everything else being equal.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Jim Watson]

When they first started showing up, I chronographed some of the same loads in .45 ACP with large primers and .45 NT with small.
The smalls gave 25 to 40 fps lower velocity than large, depending on the powder.
You could make it up with a small pistol magnum primer or a little more powder, if you cared.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've been reloading reloading for almost a year now, and I'd like to throw a couple observations about .45 auto out there for comment.

Here's the load I've been using since april:
CCI small pistol primers (No.500) or Winchester WLP as appropriate for the case

1) I like the small pistol primers because the gun, cases, and primer pockets are noticeably cleaner after firing than with the large primers;however, the large primers generate noticeably more recoil and hit the steel targets with more authority. For SD/HD, I'll stick to large primers for a little extra punch. For range sessions I'll use mostly small pistol primer cases for easier cleaning.

OK, most reloaders will see very little to no difference between small primer and large primer 45 Auto brass loads. I think I noticed why you are feeling a difference in recoil.

You are using a standard small pistol primer and a magnum strength large pistol primer. Your observations would be more valid if you were using a CCI-500 primer and a CCI-300 primer instead of a Winchester WLP primer. Winchester doesn't make a dedicated magnum strength large pistol primer and they rate their only large pistol primer for both standard and magnum applications.

Like I said above, to truly test the differences between both primer types in the 45 Auto you would need to use CCI-500 and CCI-300 primers or WSPM and WLP primers. Even using CCI-550 and WLP primers would be more valid but I would recommend staying with the same company's primers when testing differences/similarity.

 

[sexybeast]

A friend gave me a big bag of small primer cases and the range I shoot at sells ammo with small primers in.45 so I have accumulated quite a bit. Small rifle seem to work as well.

 

[Foto Joe]

Interesting info...So far I've stayed away from the SPP 45ACP brass mainly because I'd rather not have to go through the PITA of sorting the things or risk trying to stuff a LPP into a SPP hole. I imagine that the result would be LOUD!!

I've been attempting to come up with a "pet" load for my 1911's and so far haven't come up with one yet that talks to me so to speak. I have loaded 700X in 45ACP with LPP's (4.7gr under a 226gr LRN Cast) which showed 814 fps average with an SD of 11.7 which for me isn't too shabby although I wasn't bright enough to record the group size from these. Currently I'm getting ready to take some AutoComp loads (164gr LRNFP & 226LRN) out and chronograph and group 'em tomorrow.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Bullseye shooters have come to prefer the small pistol primed .45 acp brass. They're a discerning bunch, and if it gives them better accuracy at 50 yards than large pistol primed brass, they would be the ones to know.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So far I've stayed away from the SPP 45ACP brass mainly because I'd rather not have to go through the PITA of sorting the things or risk trying to stuff a LPP into a SPP hole. I imagine that the result would be LOUD!!

The primers would crush but not go BOOM so the results are not loud at all. Primers are harder to ignite than most would think...

 

[mbopp]

All other variables being equal, I consistently get (slightly) smaller groups with SPP's off a rest at 25 yards. Not enough to make a difference at USPSA ranges, but at 50 yards probably so.

 

[Foto Joe]

The primers would crush but not go BOOM so the results are not loud at all. Primers are harder to ignite than most would think...

I tend to agree with that, the last one I had go off was in a Lee Whack-A-Load in about 1980.

A couple of days ago I went to pull a brass out of the shell holder on my Lee Turret to weigh it and it wouldn't cooperate. After resetting the primer a second time I wound up pulling the brass and shell holder to have a peek through the primer seating hole. What I found was that I had managed to squash a LPP completely sideways into the primer pocket and it didn't go off. I'm certainly glad that I hadn't seated and crimped the boolit or it would have gotten interesting trying to get the thing out of the shell holder.