The thing about primers

[HowieG]

During my periods of forum browsing, I have noted various threads dedicated to primers. What primers to use with what load, cartridge, bullet, powder, weather condition, etc. etc. etc. until the cows come home, if cows really do come home.

Anyway, I have time, so I thought I would run a small test. By small, I mean real small, because powder, primers, etc. are in short supply as I am sure you all have noticed. The selected cartridge for my mini test was the 32 WCF (32-20), mainly because it doesn't use much powder. The firearm selected was my Marlin 1894CL with factory open sights.

I loaded 20 rounds for this test in identically trimmed Starline cases. The bullet used was a 115 grain cast flat point coated with Hi-Tek coating. I picked these particular bullets up from a small Roswell, NM maker several years ago.

The powder selected for this test was IMR 4227. This is mainly because I have a good supply of it, and as the forums will tell you, you are supposed to need a small rifle primer to make the stuff work right . The test charge was 10.5 grains.

Ten rounds were loaded using Winchester Small Rifle primers and ten rounds were loaded using CCI Small Pistol primers. All bullets were crimped using a Lee factory crimp die.

I set my bench up in my typical spot and rested the rifle on bags. The temperature during the test was 53 degrees F, calm, at an altitude of approx. 4900 feet. I fired through a Prochrono DLX at approx. 6 feet, at a zombie target at 25 yards. To be precise, it was a zombie pizza delivery guy target. I was not interested in accuracy, but I did hold steady on a different part of the zombie for each ten shot string.

First up was the small rifle primer load. The results are as follows: Avg Vel 1390 fps, Extreme spread 156 fps, Standard deviation 42 fps.

Next was the CCI small pistol primer load. Avg Vel 1484 fps, Extreme spread 102 fps, Standard deviation 33 fps.

The pistol primer load shot nearly 100 fps faster than the rifle primer load, and produced a smaller extreme spread and SD. How about them apples?

 

[Hrbie22]

Them apples seem to say you can use a SPP in that load and get good results. I appreciate the time you put into this. Im just unsure if this would be the case across multiple different calibers.

But then again, that's easy for me to say because I have an ample supply of both SPP and SRP. Again, I appreciate the testing.

 

[Walkalong]

Did you use consistent powder position for the test?

 

[HowieG]

Did you use consistent powder position for the test?

Yeah, that charge mostly fills the case to the base of the bullet.

 

[HowieG]

Them apples seem to say you can use a SPP in that load and get good results. I appreciate the time you put into this. Im just unsure if this would be the case across multiple different calibers.

But then again, that's easy for me to say because I have an ample supply of both SPP and SRP. Again, I appreciate the testing.

Oh, I whole heartedly agree with you on that. I have played this game before. I have a 22K Hornet that likes things the other way. It gets erratic with small pistol primers, but does well with small rifle primers. That was kind of my point. Whatever you happen to read on forums should probably come with a statement that your mileage may differ. That's what makes handloading interesting to me. Draw a conclusion and then watch the opposite occur.

 

[FROGO207]

I on the other hand have gone to all SRP or SRM primers for most things. I have a couple striker fired pistols that wont fire the rifle primers so I use SPP in them. FWIW SPM primers do not work reliably in them either. Did not use a crony to work up loads but they are more accurate than any of the factory offerings at 50 YDS. YMMV

 

[Charlie98]

Interesting. The past few years I've gotten into slow pistol powders for use in my Marlin 1894 in .41MAG... something that can use the slower powders well. To that end, I've fallen in love with IMR4227, using it primarily in the Marlin, but also my pistol loads. I've also read where some people swear by a Magnum primer with it, where most reloading data suggests otherwise. I did an informal test with my Marlin and IMR4227... copied from my previous post...

I did a primer comparo last year, using my .41MAG Marlin 1894 as the test firearm... 5 loads each with 20grn IMR4227. I had read where folks were getting better results using a Magnum primer with a slower powder like IMR4227, so I thought I would give it a try. I loaded 5 each with a standard CCI LP primer, the Winchester Standard/Magnum primer, and a CCI LPM primer. I found, even in the longer burn of the rifle barrel, the standard primer gave the middle velocity reading, but the tightest velocity spread. Winchester gave marginally higher velocity, and a marginally higher SD, the Magnum primer gave lower velocity, and an even bigger velocity spread.

...as you can see, my 'test' mirrored the OP's result, but in a different way.

Whether or not a primer makes a difference in IMR4227 fired in a pistol...? I find it unlikely, but in a rifle, where the burn characteristics of a slower powder like IMR4227 are more pronounced... I still use standard pistol primers. I always throw the caveat out there, too... my test is in no way an indicator of what you might get... as soon as you change any parameter, you change everything. Compressed load, heavier/lighter bullet, cold vs hot, phase of the moon, which side of the bed you got up on... all of that can and will change any sort of results.

 

[HowieG]

I on the other hand have gone to all SRP or SRM primers for most things. I have a couple striker fired pistols that wont fire the rifle primers so I use SPP in them. FWIW SPM primers do not work reliably in them either. Did not use a crony to work up loads but they are more accurate than any of the factory offerings at 50 YDS. YMMV

I am mostly a wheel gun guy when it comes to that. The 32-20 is the only thing I shoot in both a handgun and a rifle at the moment, and that is only with specific loads. I load a 32-20 equivalent to the 30 Carbine that uses a 100 grain jacketed bullet in front of W296 for around 1969 fps. I use a small rifle primer in that and DON'T use that in my handgun. I use magnum pistol primers for 357, but I have a 405 Winchester that I use LR primers in. That is truly a magnum capacity case, but WLR primers work just fine.

You know, it might be interesting to try a SP primer in that hot 32-20 load........

 

[HowieG]

Interesting. The past few years I've gotten into slow pistol powders for use in my Marlin 1894 in .41MAG... something that can use the slower powders well. To that end, I've fallen in love with IMR4227, using it primarily in the Marlin, but also my pistol loads. I've also read where some people swear by a Magnum primer with it, where most reloading data suggests otherwise. I did an informal test with my Marlin and IMR4227... copied from my previous post...

I did a primer comparo last year, using my .41MAG Marlin 1894 as the test firearm... 5 loads each with 20grn IMR4227. I had read where folks were getting better results using a Magnum primer with a slower powder like IMR4227, so I thought I would give it a try. I loaded 5 each with a standard CCI LP primer, the Winchester Standard/Magnum primer, and a CCI LPM primer. I found, even in the longer burn of the rifle barrel, the standard primer gave the middle velocity reading, but the tightest velocity spread. Winchester gave marginally higher velocity, and a marginally higher SD, the Magnum primer gave lower velocity, and an even bigger velocity spread.

...as you can see, my 'test' mirrored the OP's result, but in a different way.

Whether or not a primer makes a difference in IMR4227 fired in a pistol...? I find it unlikely, but in a rifle, where the burn characteristics of a slower powder like IMR4227 are more pronounced... I still use standard pistol primers. I always throw the caveat out there, too... my test is in no way an indicator of what you might get... as soon as you change any parameter, you change everything. Compressed load, heavier/lighter bullet, cold vs hot, phase of the moon, which side of the bed you got up on... all of that can and will change any sort of results.

That is interesting. As kind of an aside to the actual test, I fired ten rounds that I loaded up back in 2013. Same case, but a 10 grain charge of H4227 (not IMR) behind a plain, standard lubed, 115 grain bullet. I forget the brand of bullet. Maybe Meister? Too long ago and I didn't note it. The primer was again the CCI SP. The results were AVG VEL 1511 fps, ES 194, SD 57.

I know H4227 and IMR4227 are supposed to be the same, but this rifle always grouped best with the H4227 variety. That was the same here with nine of ten shots in a ragged hole. Velocity exceeded the Hi-tek coated bullet by just a bit, but the ES and SD weren't as good.

 

[FROGO207]

Might be OK for a one off to try but I would worry about pierced primers in a hot 32-20 rifle load using a SPP. I will admit that I did most of my experimenting due to lack of supplies back when. I figured out less choices to stock were easier to manage. I also do not use LRP either just LRM.

 

[HowieG]

Might be OK for a one off to try but I would worry about pierced primers in a hot 32-20 rifle load using a SPP. I will admit that I did most of my experimenting due to lack of supplies back when. I figured out less choices to stock were easier to manage. I also do not use LRP either just LRM.

You might be right, but I used that same CCI SP primer in a 22K Hornet load running around 42,000 CUP with no problem other than erratic ballistics. According to Paco Kelly, a 32-20 loaded to that level is generating around 33,000 CUP.

 

[FROGO207]

I always err on the cautious side with firearms.
I was able to score 3K Rem 6-1/2 primers about 3 months ago. They are all used in my 22 Hornet and 357 loads already. This freed up a bunch of SRM for the AR so I call it a win. That was the last of any kind of primers that Natchez had.

 

[HowieG]

I always err on the cautious side with firearms.
I was able to score 3K Rem 6-1/2 primers about 3 months ago. They are all used in my 22 Hornet and 357 loads already. This freed up a bunch of SRM for the AR so I call it a win. That was the last of any kind of primers that Natchez had.

Nice score! I was casting about this morning looking at what was available (or not) as far as powder goes. Looks like if you need a black powder substitute, you will be in good shape. Other than that, not so much...

What gun are you running 22 Hornet in??

 

[FROGO207]

A Savage single shot combo 22Hornet and 16 GA barrels. I think a model 219 without getting it out. I call it my reloadable .22mag. Also have an old .22 rimfire winchester that was bored out to Hornet. It's bore is actually .223 diameter.

 

[HowieG]

A Savage single shot combo 22Hornet and 16 GA barrels. I think a model 219 without getting it out. I call it my reloadable .22mag. Also have an old .22 rimfire winchester that was bored out to Hornet. It's bore is actually .223 diameter.

I am certainly am familiar with the Savage combo guns. They were all over when I was a kid. I know exactly what you mean by reloadable 22mag. I pretty much stopped shooting rimfire once I started doing hornet. Doesn't Hornady still make a .223 Hornet bullet?

 

[FROGO207]

They do but it is spotty getting them at times. I have about 400 left to reload as well as about 800 I was given that were supposed to be 55 grain 224 FMJ but were sized at .223 instead. I need to try them and see if they are accurate in the old rimfire. We'll see one of these days.

 

[HowieG]

They do but it is spotty getting them at times. I have about 400 left to reload as well as about 800 I was given that were supposed to be 55 grain 224 FMJ but were sized at .223 instead. I need to try them and see if they are accurate in the old rimfire. We'll see one of these days.

They will probably work fine, but if they aren't that great, they are still free. Great for tests and general screwing around.