.45 brass with a small primer?

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springmom

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As many of you know, we're new at reloading, literally just getting ready to reload our first batch. We're taking it one step at a time, and this morning I ran across something unexpected. I was depriming some .45acp cases, most of it stuff we had shot over the past year or so. A few of the cases are Win NT. When I pulled the case off the press to clean the primer pocket, the large end of the tool would not go into the primer hole. This is .45acp, and I was under the impression that all .45 cases would take large primers; but if the cleaning tool won't go into the pocket, will a large primer? I'd just as soon not find out the hard way that the answer is "no".

Can anybody elaborate on this?

Thanks.

Springmom
 
will a large primer?

No!

Winchester NT (for Non Toxic) was factory loaded with a small primer using lead free priming compound. They can be reloaded with standard small pistol primers - although Winchester says not to - but unless you have a whole lot of them, it just isn't worth the trouble to set up for it. I'd throw them in the scrap brass box along with any A-MERC that turns up.

Federal NT is the same with the added complication of a heavy primer pocket crimp. More work than it is worth even at current brass prices.
 
Win NT (and I think Federal NT) are the 'non-toxic' rounds (WinClean, I guess). And yup, they use a small primer. Separate them and try to sell them so you don't get them mixed with your regular 45 brass.

A similar thing happens with R-P 7.62x39 brass: it uses small rifle primers while all other brands use large rifle.
 
You ran across the brass from Winchester Non-Toxic ammo. Federal also makes NT. Non-toxic primers are only made in small size, and use Dinol organic compound instead of lead styphnate. You will also notice a larger flash hole, as NT primers have lower brisance.

You need to segregate these cases out, and load them separately if you must. I chuck them.

LT
 
Winclean NT and other brands of lead-free ammo did, and still may use Sm. primers.

The lead-free primer mix is much more violent then normal primers, and early on, they were causing breech face peening in some guns.

They then went to small primers and 1/8" or larger flash holes, and crimped primer pockets to lower the primer cup pressure and prevent gun damage from primer set-back.

If I had a bunch of Sm. primer .45 ACP cases, I would throw them away!

It's just not worth the hassle trying to sort them out and keep them separate from normal .45 ACP cases.

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rcmodel
 
Thanks. That's what I thought, and it seemed better to ask than to experiment, particularly with small bits of explosives :D

Springmom
 
I picked up a bunch of them cases at the range, once. They were so damn clean, they looked unfired. Now their in China, or where ever scrap brass goes:D
 
Springmom- Isn't this nice? I've been hanging out here in the reloaders forum for the last few weeks and LOVE IT. I like to read, but it is always easier to understand when you have so many knowledgable people to help out.

You got 3 responses in the same minute, four within 2 minutes. I think that is amazing. :)

Justin
 
I save all of the NT brass (as well as 45 GAP) for my S&W 625. You don't get any light strikes, like you do with large primers and reduced mainspring tension. They work better than the (now scarce) federal primers, that most recognize as the softest.
 
Well, now THAT'S interesting. My old M25-2 is not a real hard whacker and would benefit from the help. I have a few NTs I can single stage and test the approach. What SP primers do you use?
 
Jim,
I’ve been using Winchester from a large quantity I have left over from pre AWB days. I only tried it as I couldn’t see buying new large Federals when I had all of those Winchesters. FWIW the 45 GAP brass moons/demoons without tools (worth investing in 500 new brass from the start) and will also lower the SD on really light loads (like the old 550fps 230gr SSR 125 pf loads).
 
My 25-2 will not fire 45acp drop in's reliably. It fires them in a moon clip, and it fires auto rims.

So I just load auto rims.


I want some old Non-Toxic small primer 10mm brass and will pay $$
 
The non-toxic, small primer brass will load and shoot just fine. I separate it out and load it as a lot when I've got enough to mess with, usually a couple hundred. For informal plinking and close range target shooting, I haven't noticed any difference in point of impact between the two primer pocket sizes. I've interchanged them in the magazine and shot them from sand bags, and they all go in the same hole at 15 yards from my XD or 1911. The Bushmaster did a test of them over his chronograph and found about a 50 fps difference in velocity.

I've tried the same experiment with the old .38 Special and .357 Magnum brass that took large pistol primers. There was no noticable difference on the target. Now that brass is collectable, so it doesn't get fired any longer.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Save the small primer 45s and trade/sell them to someone who mainly loads calibers using small primers. Being able to run a small batch of 45 without changing the priming system is a nice option for people with dillon 1050s and (maybe) 650s.
 
I bought 1000 once fired 45s on ebay. Out of the 1,000, six hundred of them ("Speer" 45's) had small primer pockets. I had specified I didn't want "NT" brass but didn't realize other's made small pocket 45s.

Cloudpeak
 
Just prime them with small pistol primers and shoot them. You won't notice any difference when you fire them.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
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