.45 Colt/.410 Hammerless over/under pistol....Teaser!

[bluejeans]

great work. i have considered making something similar but i'm a sucker for exposed hammers. i'll be watching how this turns out. thanks for sharing

 

[MachIVshooter]

Are you a machinist by trade and this is your in home just for fun setup? Or is this strictly a hobby for you?

I'm a mechanic. I bought a HF mini mill and mini lathe back in '05 and fumbled my way through a random small part here and there, but really only got into machining a couple of years ago, having worked out a trade deal for my Lagun FTV-2 and Hardinge HCT with the fellow from whom I'd started purchasing aluminum scrap to make RC car parts on the mini mill.

I'm trying to make some money with the machines, but they're mostly used for personal projects.

i'm a sucker for exposed hammers

I am too, my favorite shotgun being my 1878 L.C. Smith Hammer Double 10 ga. But exposed hammers on an O/U would be a little wonky, and also wouldn't fit the post-modern theme I'm shooting for with the titanium and carbon fiber. Would have been easier, though! Dual exposed hammers and dual triggers is a much simpler mechanism!

 

[MachIVshooter]

Front barrel clamp/sight is done, and got the receiver securing screw squared away

 

[Bullseye]

Awesome thread. I rated it 5 stars if that does anything.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Got the firing pins made and those holes drilled yesterday:





Drilling stepped holes at compound angles which have to be precisely located with 4" of twist drill handing out of the chuck is fun! Calculating exactly where to put them was a bit of work, too, having to account for where the front and rear of the pin will actually be when at rest and during firing.

We used the little mill for this operation, since I have a tilt/swivel vise on it already.



Also got the grip frame profiled and the 4mm Carbon fiber grip panels made. I was originally going to use flat head socket screws, but since 1) I had button heads on hand and 2) you can crank a button head on a flat countersink a lot tighter than flat heads in a beveled countersink, I opted to use them:





I was originally going to completely hollow it out under the panels, but decided to leave a .100" thick web in the center to prevent any flexing. So the now .700" wide aluminum grip frame is hollowed .300" deep on either side within 1/4" of all edges prior to rounding, leaving me a strong frame and enough meat to further round the profile as I see fit. It's close now, but not quite a perfect fit in my meat hooks yet.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Well, these quiet days aren't good for the bank account, but the upside is that they give me time to tinker with personal stuff. Today was making and fitting the extractor:







Also, my 0.6245" reamer showed up Monday afternoon, so I got the barrel block reamed to final size and pressed the barrels in. As well as a press fit, they are secured with five 1/16" pins that grab both tubes, as they are only 0.020" apart:



With the barrels fitted, I decided to test fire, even though I've not yet hardened all the D2 steel parts. Just one shot, one round of 3" .410. Unfortunately, I am once again dealing with a hammer spring power problem, so it took multiple strikes. However, unlike mini AR, these are just plain old compression springs, so I should be able to find more powerful ones than those which I scored at the hardware store.



Anyway, I still have some finish work to do, but it's close! Bevel cuts on the receiver, skimming the receiver and barrel block together with a fly cutter, bead blasting the aluminum. Also still have to decide how I want to do the safety. But pretty good progress for < 1 month, I think

 

[sgt127]

I'm a dandy tinkerer. I can fix almost anything. But, when the end comes, I want you nearby.

That's just awesome.

 

[badkarmamib]

Kinda reminds me of a Klingon Disruptor pistol. This has to be the coolest homemade firearm I have ever seen, due to its originality. Great job!

 

[bannockburn]

Another awesome home-built gun! Looks somewhat retro in it's design and configuration.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Looks somewhat retro in it's design and configuration.

That was kinda the idea; old school design and style, mixed with state-of-the-art materials.

I'm trying to decide how to add a little flare to the baron side panels of the grip frame, but no ideas yet that just scream "yes!"

 

[ewlyon]

Really neat project. Makes me think of those Lancaster Howdahs although this looks a lot more modern

 

[MachIVshooter]

Got the receiver cuts done and the frame bead blasted today. Will probably end up clear Cerkoting the frame, but need to settle on engraving first.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

You should get "Dirty Harry Dillinger" engraved just for laughs.

Impressed would be an understatement. I come from a wood working and RC background. Your milling/metal work is pretty amazing for a non professional.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Impressed would be an understatement. I come from a wood working and RC background. Your milling/metal work is pretty amazing for a non professional.

Thank you!

You should get "Dirty Harry Dillinger" engraved just for laughs.

I'm actually leaning toward "Double Jeopardy". Applicable, and kinda keeps with the legal/government theme of the .45 colt/.410 Taurus Judge and S&W Governor.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I'm actually leaning toward "Double Jeopardy". Applicable, and kinda keeps with the legal/government theme of the .45 colt/.410 Taurus Judge and S&W Governor.

How about "The Prosecutor"?

Actually, "Legal Counsel" is oddly amusing too.

Got the receiver cuts done and the frame bead blasted today. Will probably end up clear Cerkoting the frame, but need to settle on engraving first

Sounds like a good idea for durability and corrosion resistance. I know that SS will corrode with enough exposure to moisture, but what about the titanium? I've never owned a titanium gun before and am unfamiliar with it's oxidation potential.

Another thought. Are you going to have a custom holster made for it or make one yourself? This would make a dandy woods gun, and I'm picturing some sort of low ride tactical type of holster. Sort of like the ones that strap to your leg that Safariland makes. Actually I think a leather holster designed to do the same with a button strap would be really cool too. I actually have a design in mind like this that I want to get a custom leather guy to make for me. It's for my S&W Competitor, as no one seems to make a good leather holster for a revolver with that profile. Or even a low sitting scabbard that sits horizontally under a hiking pack, if you do any hiking that is.

 

[OilyPablo]

Lead Counsel 2X. Very cool. What an awesome project. I get a great sense of accomplishment just getting a basket case gun running or assembling new or heck even making ammo. But a gun from scratch? Pretty sure God didn't give me those skills because my head would burst.

 

[MachIVshooter]

How about "The Prosecutor"?

Hmmm. I kinda like that, too!

Sounds like a good idea for durability and corrosion resistance. I know that SS will corrode with enough exposure to moisture, but what about the titanium? I've never owned a titanium gun before and am unfamiliar with it's oxidation potential.

I'm only gonna Cerakote the aluminum, and that's really for finish durability. Titanium, like aluminum, forms an oxide layer almost instantly. Unlike aluminum, however, it is impervious to nearly all elements, including salt water and most acids. 6Al-4V gr. 5 also has a tensile strength of 138,000 PSI in it's annealed state, and is very abrasion resistant. It truly is an incredible material, just that all those wonderful properties make it a pain to work with!

As for stainless, there certainly are grades which are highly resistant to corrosion, but guns are made from heat treatable 400 series alloys, which are ferritic and will rust just like carbon steels, albeit more slowly. Like stronger & harder grades of aluminum, the trade off is lower corrosion resistance.

Another thought. Are you going to have a custom holster made for it or make one yourself? This would make a dandy woods gun, and I'm picturing some sort of low ride tactical type of holster. Sort of like the ones that strap to your leg that Safariland makes. Actually I think a leather holster designed to do the same with a button strap would be really cool too. I actually have a design in mind like this that I want to get a custom leather guy to make for me. It's for my S&W Competitor, as no one seems to make a good leather holster for a revolver with that profile. Or even a low sitting scabbard that sits horizontally under a hiking pack, if you do any hiking that is.

I probably will make a holster, but I doubt I'll carry it much. It's not that heavy at 46.3 ounces, but at 16-1/2 inches long (4" longer than my 7.5" SRH .454), it's rather unwieldy.

But a gun from scratch? Pretty sure God didn't give me those skills because my head would burst.

You start simple, man! I may only have a couple years under my belt with legitimate machine tools, but I've been making guns with grinders, hacksaws and drill presses since I was 13. Got in quite a bit of trouble for one of em, too But seriously, there are plans for guns like mini Jaco derringers that can be hammered out with pretty minimal tools and skills going in. Most of them certainly end up looking like home builds, but it's a starting point, not the pinnacle!

http://www.replicaplans.com/Bluepri...Caliber Single Shot) Plans - JACO Designs.pdf

 

[kBob]

I've been holding off saying anything so as to not repeat myself, but....

That is some nice work and styling.

I like DJ as it says that while you can not be tried twice for the same crime you can sure as heck be shot twice for it.

A can hardly wait to see how this handles some of the .410 buckshot out there.

I am curious as to how or if the barrels will be regulated.

-kBob

 

[MachIVshooter]

I am curious as to how or if the barrels will be regulated.

Nah. Not worried about POA vs POI. They are dead even, 0.645" +/- 0.002" apart on centers their entire lengths. As well, being an O/U, variations in bullet velocity will probably affect POI at range more than the differences in tube elevations.

Frankly, I don't much understand why one bothers to regulate other than shotguns. I'd rather have bullets impact consistently* 1/2" or so left or right of POA at any range than regulation which makes them impact the same point at 50 or 100 yards, but the resulting criss-cross meaning that they are several inches to either side at range. I know those ranges are unlikely with DG hunting, but still

*Assuming 0.00 MOA groups from each barrel

 

[MachIVshooter]

It lives! Wolff came through for me, sent me a pair each of HK USP hammer springs and 1938 Sauer H hammer springs. The USP springs were a little weak, but the Sauer springs did the trick! I've fired a couple dozen rounds now, both .45 Colt and .410. Just in my back yard, where there's not an adequate backstop, so cannot comment as to accuracy just yet, but will report back as soon as I can get some rounds on paper at distance.

All that's left now is hardening the internal parts and sorting out the safety, which I was waiting to do until I knew exactly what a functional internal configuration would be. Thanks to Wolff gunsprings, I can move ahead!

 

[Robbins290]

That looks amazing

 

[MikeJackmin]

That's awesome work. Pretty as well as functional.

>Not worried about POA vs POI. They are dead even, 0.645" +/- 0.002" apart on centers their entire lengths.

I'd expect the top barrel to shoot a little high, because of the higher bore axis over your hand. Might not be by too much though.

 

[PapaGrune]

I was wondering what kind of finish you were going to put on it...
a lot of choices. But that is a good one.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'd expect the top barrel to shoot a little high, because of the higher bore axis over your hand. Might not be by too much though.

I've gotta get it on paper and find out! Wednesday evening I went out to a buddy's place where we could actually put some rounds downrange, as I don't have a suitable backstop at home, so just putting rounds into the dirt a few feet away for function testing. It seems to be about as accurate as any common handgun, though figuring out how to aim it took a few rounds. I deliberately left the front sight blade very high for aesthetic reasons, so at 25 yards with my 250 gr LRNFP handloads (Fairly warm, averaging 1030 FPS from my 5.5" Stampede), had to make about a 60° pyramid with the sights to hit POA.

It did get to claim one of those destructive little vermin we call rabbits with a 3" #5 load at about 40 or 45 feet

I've got about 100 rounds through it now, and everything is holding up great. After the first 30 or so, I tore it back down and heat treated all the D2 steel parts, so other than deciding on and incorporating a safety and final finish on the grip frame, this one is done.

 

[chicharrones]

That is another incredible scratch build, Mach IV ! I don't know how I missed this before now!