CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Sorry, not lighter but the same at 36oz.
These were under $1000.
Story goes there was three of them made and after one blew with proof loads, the other two never left the factory and were never seen again.
Jim Watson
Member
Yes, but I didn't see the need of getting into the fine details or digging out Sixguns for the whole story.
This is just an amazing revolver! Congratulation, you really have a taste and know what makes already a very good revolver even better.
Wow! I go away for a few days and get a flurry of great answers, thank you all! I won't answer to all of the posts individually of course but I will clarify a few points along with my "philosophy of use," (to quote Nut'nFancy).
As mentioned before, yes, I already own a genuine Colt SAA in .38-40 built in 1897. I got it with a timing problem, which took me a long time to fix, and some money, but I got a good education, thanks to Jim Martin and Ken Baumgartner who gave me advise by phone. I made a video about it:
Here in France, just like in the U.S. it is classified as an antique and available without any paperwork. The reason I bought it, aside from my love for that particular model, is because nobody will ever take it from me; which isn't the case of any firearms built after 1899, except black powder replicas. Actually I eventually will be looking at getting a Colt Lightning rifle also in .38-40, which is also classified as an antique. Unfortunately the Winchester 1873 isn't, even if built before 1900.
As to the .45-270-SAA mould I own... I used to live in Sarasota Florida (22 years), should have never left... Actually I might not stay in France, got back here following unfortunate unforeseen circumstances. So I bought the mould in the U.S. I have Brian Pierce's great article discussing the different load levels with this bullet. We can't get American powders here but we do get Vihtavuori, otherwise it's Vectan powders only. I can use Vihtavuori N-110 in place of 2400 and Vectan Ba9 in place of Unique.
My biggest regret is that guns here can only be used either for hunting, which is very expensive, elitist and complicated, or at the range, and that's it. There is no shooting in the woods or anywhere else, especially with handguns, if you don't want to spend five years in prison... There are few dangerous animals in my region, wild pigs (sangliers) and wolves (rare). There are brown bears in the Pyrenees but if you shoot one in self-defence, you'll wish you had been eaten instead, if they find you... At the range, with handguns, it's 25 meters only, and you better look dignified, in a sporting sort of way, and space your shots...
I'm 56 now, and started only buying things for the long term, that I do not intend to sell later... For guns, you must renew your authorisation every five years. If regulations change, and I suspect they might, given the global push we all know, ownership isn't guaranteed long term for post-1900 built weapons. Yet, it is what I'd like to get, a "wood-bumming forever-gun," in a country where it isn't allowed (bumming & forever). Now you know one of the reasons I want to leave.
So I mailed my paperwork yesterday, a hefty envelope... Now the long wait starts, presumably eight months before I get an answer. In the meantime, today I ordered a Pietta 1851 Navy, just for the fun of shooting black powder. I don't really want to shoot my 1st-Gen SAA, which I did shoot 25 times BTW. With a 190gr bullet and full charge of 3F BP, the .38-40 is powerful. My revolver has no finish left on it so it develops a light bloom of rust on the way back from the range. I'd rather keep it in good shape, in the safe, and shoot an Italian replica or a Ruger. I asked for two authorisations... One will be for a 9mm.I first thought of a Glock 19 (I used to own a 17), but I might try to find a Pietta in 9mm. I'm thinking about it because as I write this, my back is shot, and I can barely walk. It happens only two-three times a year and should be ok in a couple days, but picking up empty cases on the range floor is not something I look forward to...
If you are curious about the other guns I own and shoot, I have a Pietta 1858, AR15 in .300Blk, Uberti 1873 rifle in .32-20, CZ 455 in .17hmr, Remington 783 in .308 with Boyds stock, Chiappa Little Badger in .22lr and of course my SAA. I might get a Rossi 92 in .45 Colt. I do have all the reloading stuff for .45 Colt. I saw a used Blackhawk for 550 Euros, in .41 magnum. If it was easy to get cases here I would jump on it... A Freedom Arms 97 remains a dream.
All right, enough babbling for one post, ya'll have a great week-end!
Gil.
As mentioned before, yes, I already own a genuine Colt SAA in .38-40 built in 1897. I got it with a timing problem, which took me a long time to fix, and some money, but I got a good education, thanks to Jim Martin and Ken Baumgartner who gave me advise by phone. I made a video about it:
Here in France, just like in the U.S. it is classified as an antique and available without any paperwork. The reason I bought it, aside from my love for that particular model, is because nobody will ever take it from me; which isn't the case of any firearms built after 1899, except black powder replicas. Actually I eventually will be looking at getting a Colt Lightning rifle also in .38-40, which is also classified as an antique. Unfortunately the Winchester 1873 isn't, even if built before 1900.
As to the .45-270-SAA mould I own... I used to live in Sarasota Florida (22 years), should have never left... Actually I might not stay in France, got back here following unfortunate unforeseen circumstances. So I bought the mould in the U.S. I have Brian Pierce's great article discussing the different load levels with this bullet. We can't get American powders here but we do get Vihtavuori, otherwise it's Vectan powders only. I can use Vihtavuori N-110 in place of 2400 and Vectan Ba9 in place of Unique.
My biggest regret is that guns here can only be used either for hunting, which is very expensive, elitist and complicated, or at the range, and that's it. There is no shooting in the woods or anywhere else, especially with handguns, if you don't want to spend five years in prison... There are few dangerous animals in my region, wild pigs (sangliers) and wolves (rare). There are brown bears in the Pyrenees but if you shoot one in self-defence, you'll wish you had been eaten instead, if they find you... At the range, with handguns, it's 25 meters only, and you better look dignified, in a sporting sort of way, and space your shots...
I'm 56 now, and started only buying things for the long term, that I do not intend to sell later... For guns, you must renew your authorisation every five years. If regulations change, and I suspect they might, given the global push we all know, ownership isn't guaranteed long term for post-1900 built weapons. Yet, it is what I'd like to get, a "wood-bumming forever-gun," in a country where it isn't allowed (bumming & forever). Now you know one of the reasons I want to leave.
So I mailed my paperwork yesterday, a hefty envelope... Now the long wait starts, presumably eight months before I get an answer. In the meantime, today I ordered a Pietta 1851 Navy, just for the fun of shooting black powder. I don't really want to shoot my 1st-Gen SAA, which I did shoot 25 times BTW. With a 190gr bullet and full charge of 3F BP, the .38-40 is powerful. My revolver has no finish left on it so it develops a light bloom of rust on the way back from the range. I'd rather keep it in good shape, in the safe, and shoot an Italian replica or a Ruger. I asked for two authorisations... One will be for a 9mm.I first thought of a Glock 19 (I used to own a 17), but I might try to find a Pietta in 9mm. I'm thinking about it because as I write this, my back is shot, and I can barely walk. It happens only two-three times a year and should be ok in a couple days, but picking up empty cases on the range floor is not something I look forward to...
If you are curious about the other guns I own and shoot, I have a Pietta 1858, AR15 in .300Blk, Uberti 1873 rifle in .32-20, CZ 455 in .17hmr, Remington 783 in .308 with Boyds stock, Chiappa Little Badger in .22lr and of course my SAA. I might get a Rossi 92 in .45 Colt. I do have all the reloading stuff for .45 Colt. I saw a used Blackhawk for 550 Euros, in .41 magnum. If it was easy to get cases here I would jump on it... A Freedom Arms 97 remains a dream.
All right, enough babbling for one post, ya'll have a great week-end!
Gil.
UncleEd
Member
The SAA if you want to hold a so-called "piece of history'' that
was really a fine gun.
But if you just want to throw .45 lead, then the Blackhawk
all the way. It is the end product of what so many old-time
shooters found lacking in the SAA.
Or go really first class and get a Freedom Arms.
was really a fine gun.
But if you just want to throw .45 lead, then the Blackhawk
all the way. It is the end product of what so many old-time
shooters found lacking in the SAA.
Or go really first class and get a Freedom Arms.
UncleEd
Member
and not really outdoors all-weather field guns. 
Conelrad
Member
There goes the apple cart...
I just love this revolver, and love the way it shoots, too. Limited edition from Lipseys, I believe.
Yep, 45ACP.
Conelrad
I just love this revolver, and love the way it shoots, too. Limited edition from Lipseys, I believe.
Yep, 45ACP.
Conelrad
For those same reasons, semi-auto pistols are not something that attract me. The only one I would consider is a nice FB Vis Radom P35, more "I like it and it would be nice to have one", but not for extensive shooting on the range .
I was watching on the range folks shooting SIG P240 in 38 Special and Walther GSP in 32 S&W, and after shooting is over, they go around chasing a brass. Things are not bad when there is one shooter, but when on the range are two or more, shooting same caliber, and picking starts, they examine every case; "this is mine, this one is yours". Of course, those accidentally crashed are the loss.
Well, I do like semi-auto pistols as well. It might seem antagonistic, but I am also a big fan of the 1911 and the Glock. The first time I handled a Colt SAA though, I understood what "points like the finger of God" means. The ergonomics are just perfect. The .45 Colt also packs a wallop. Then there is the history... Those early Colts are genius-level designs, but you all know that. I think what got me into revolvers was the time I was buying cap&ball guns before I could buy "real guns," so 18-21yo. In between,I owned a Glock 17, Tanfoglio .41AE, Coonan 357, Desert Eagle .44mag, Colt Trooper .357, Mini Uzi (full auto) 9mm, and the Pietta SAA .45. What I never overly liked are double-action revolvers and shotguns... I don't own either... I still might get a Glock 19, but it probably will be my only semi-auto handgun. I also like ARs and AKs as much as lever-action rifles.
Handling that SAA, there is just something special about it...
Gil.
Handling that SAA, there is just something special about it...
Gil.
King Medallion
Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2021
- Messages
- 347
who does this Remington conversion? I have a couple I'd be willing to try that on.
I have cal. 44 Uberti 1858, Target, stainless, and from what I could see, those 6-bore cylinder walls between chambers do not look something I would like to bore for 45 Colt chamber. Of course, I am talking about conversion cylinder where dimensions (chamber spacing) are the same as on original C&B cylinder. From what I know, there are 4 main versions of conversion cylinder:
- Straight 6 bore; they say it's enough strong for SAAMI 45 Colt rounds, but I am skeptical, not in my revolver.
- Angular 6 Bore; bit stronger than straight bore. Apparently, angular chambers aren't big issue regarding accuracy.
- Straight 5 bore, odd spacing. Should be stronger than either 6 bore, however, I just don't like odd things.
As far as I could see, there is one and only safe resting place for hammer
- Straight 5 bore, equal spacing. If I ever consider conversion cylinder, this one bellow will be my one and only choice.
There are 5 resting places for hammer/firing pin.
NOTE-1: All 6 bore cylinders I had seen are with rotating back plate containing 6 firing pins. As for the 5 bore cylinder with 5 pins rotating back plate, I didn't see any.
NOTE-2: 5 bore cylinders I had seen are all single firing pin. Some back plates are without gate (see first picture above), some back plates are gated (see second picture above), of course, both non-rotating.
Please correct me if I made mistake or omitted something.
- Straight 6 bore; they say it's enough strong for SAAMI 45 Colt rounds, but I am skeptical, not in my revolver.
- Angular 6 Bore; bit stronger than straight bore. Apparently, angular chambers aren't big issue regarding accuracy.
- Straight 5 bore, odd spacing. Should be stronger than either 6 bore, however, I just don't like odd things.
As far as I could see, there is one and only safe resting place for hammer
- Straight 5 bore, equal spacing. If I ever consider conversion cylinder, this one bellow will be my one and only choice.
There are 5 resting places for hammer/firing pin.
NOTE-1: All 6 bore cylinders I had seen are with rotating back plate containing 6 firing pins. As for the 5 bore cylinder with 5 pins rotating back plate, I didn't see any.
NOTE-2: 5 bore cylinders I had seen are all single firing pin. Some back plates are without gate (see first picture above), some back plates are gated (see second picture above), of course, both non-rotating.
Please correct me if I made mistake or omitted something.
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That seem about right. I had a conversion cylinder for my Pietta 1858, R&D Research or something like that, it was an angled six-chamber design and worked really well. I reloaded 200gr bullets for it. The only issue is that you had to remove the cylinder to reload it. Easy to do but then you end up with three things in your hands plus ammo... Now I would prefer a gated conversion, even it it means losing one shot. Unfortunately here in France conversion cylinders are not allowed.
Gil.
Gil.
For outside USA conversion cylinders do not make sense. C&B revolvers that could be purchased and possessed without permit, but with conversion cylinder C&B revolvers will be classified as center firing firearms. And that means much more complex procedures, permits and paperwork. So, if the goal is 45 Colt revolver, considering cost and everything else, NMBH, 1873, or one of those topbreaks would be IMO better path.
Vern Humphrey
Member
In addition, the Ruger Bolt Stop is off-center, so the notch does not weaken the chamber wall. In the Colt and clones, the notch is cut dead-center, into the thinnest part of the chamber wall. In .45 Colt, the metal at the bottom of the notch is frighteningly thin -- around 0.01."
That's the reason Elmer Keith had his famous "Number 5" made up in .44 Special. In that chambering, he just about doubled the metal thickness at that point and that made it possible for him to develop the really HOT loads he favored.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's highly debatable and on the edge of absurd.
If the one and only design is Colt 1873, and ammo regarding energy is on the same level as it was year 1873, you've got the point.
Also, when looking down on Ruger revolvers, prizing (over)polishing that even front sight has rounded edges and shines like mirror, you've got second point:
For all us ordinary mortals, who like to shoot our revolvers, expecting to bring down deer or hog, where strength, durability and reliability are the must, Ruger revolvers will do it. This is what cost me trifle more than $1000 Canadian some 10-12 years ago. That includes brand new SBH, and installing parts from Bisley Vaquero (sold Vaquero later on):
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Well, I might be looking at a barely used Blackhawk for about $600. A far cry from the $1500 new price (EU). The thing is, it's in .41 Magnum. Now, I like the idea and the caliber, but the cases are very hard to get here. I also would need to buy reloading dies, mold and sizer, so there would be extra cost up-front. I can't find a single Pietta or Uberti in .45 with a 4-3/4 barrel in France! None in stock! I don't like the Uberti's hammer safety anyway... I'll decide by Monday...
NeroM
Member
I shoot 357, 41, 44, 45 Colt and 454, 41 has been my go to hunting cartridge for probably 30 years. It is probably the most flexible of the group. 215 gr SWC at 950-1000 fps is easy to shoot and quite effective for most purposes. 250 gr LBT at 1400 will anchor just about any game. All the 41 Mag revolvers I have shot seemed to be especially accurate. I like 45 Colt a lot and have shot it longer than the 41, inspite of the additional overhead, doubt you will be unhappy with the 41.
For competing in SASS as routine Ruger win (better service and solid guns overall), Uberti and Italian clones looks nice and shiny mostly run well, but service and parts on vital components you are on your own.
When coins are the issue, the Italians get more fans.
Lately Ruger's beside an expensive decision are hard to get (Vaquero $950 in 357 to $600 Italians)
I enjoy shooting the Ruger's consistently.
When coins are the issue, the Italians get more fans.
Lately Ruger's beside an expensive decision are hard to get (Vaquero $950 in 357 to $600 Italians)
I enjoy shooting the Ruger's consistently.
Attachments
Hi, well, still better than the $1800 here in France!
A Pietta is around $550, Uberti around $800...
Gil.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,085
The OP is French and lives in France. The S&W ??? Who knows what it might go for in France? Worth a look at least.
It really depends on your intended use: plinking, target shooting, hunting, or reenactment. For plinking or reenactment, obviously the Pietta. For the price difference get a gunsmith to work it over and regulate the sights, cylinder timing and chamber throats (if there are such gunsmith available to you). For hunting or any kind of accurate target work the Ruger will have an advantage. It will probably also benefit from a visit to a good gunsmith but possibly not as much as the Pietta.
Hope this helps and whichever you choose, bon chance.
Thanks GeoDude. BTW I used to live in Sarasota FL..
The Smith & Wesson would cost around $2300-2600 new.
Guns cost about twice as much here. Import taxes, 20% sales tax, and who knows what else...
Hunting with a handgun or transporting one anywhere outside of your route to the range you are registered with outside of opening hours will get you five years in prison and a fine large enough for you to sell your house.
Sure, we have good wine and cheese, but other than that...
I paid for the Blackhawk. Of course they are closed on week-ends and Mondays, it's France... I have to mail in my purchase authorisation and they will ship it in two packages 48hrs apart. I hope I get news tomorrow morning that they still have it...
I plan on getting a mixed Accurate mold, 41-250F and 41-210K(eith).
That with shipping and taxes should cost me about $260 for a two-cavity.
In the mean time I found 175gr .410 .41AE SWC bullets. Too bad the range is closed in August.
We have Vectan Ba6-1/2 powder here, equivalent to VV N110.
Also Vectan Ba9 is pretty much equivalent to Unique.
I am weary of Vectan's loads, as I remember trying their 15.4gr (1g) of SP3 for a 357 158gr that left the primers so flat you could barely see a firing pin indentation! Fortunately I was using a Coonan, and it survived.
Interestingly enough, Vectan and Vihtavuori have the exact same load listings in their tables: Same 210gr XTP at 19.8gr producing 1529fps (max); can't be a coincidence. I wonder who copied who and didn't bother to test Jack... Maybe they are linked...
I am reading a lot about the .41 Magnum and feel better and better about my purchase. I won't rejoice until it's in my hands though. I found only 200 cases, shopped online across the country... A box of 20 Federal rounds is about $55. Glad I cast and reload!
Gil.
45/30-06OKIE
Member
I'm the same way, I'm young so I'm not recoil adverse, but I like shooting powder puff 250gr 45 colt loads cause it's fun! And I can pretend I'm Bill Paxton in Tombstone!! RIP...
I actually have a belt rig set up from Kirkpatrick Leatherworks in Texas with a replica US Marshal Oklahoma Territory badge!!
