45 Colt Case Sizing for Rifle

[JDinFbg]

I recently acquired a Marlin 1894 rifle in 45 Colt and need to tool-up for reloading it. I've read multiple posts about many rifle chambers for this cartridge being cut fairly large, cases not providing good gas seal during firing, and shortened case life if FL resized. I've read about Redding's dual-ring sizing die (very pricey) as one option, and others have indicated good results from only sizing the first part of the case. However, others have said the partial sizing did not work well for them. So, I'm kind of in a dilemma on what approach to take. I'm only interested in loading for this one rifle (not revolver), so I'd like to know what 45 Colt rifle reloaders have to say on this subject. If anyone out there is using the Redding dual-ring sizing die, do you feel the benefits were worth the high cost of the die?

 

[jimboecv]

I have an Uberti '73 and a Blackhawk but I don't have you're issue.
I would pick a load and shoot several in each set up configuration. How much are the Redding dies, anyway? Buy once cry once...

 

[bluejay75]

It’s hard to wear out 45 Colt brass. You will bulge it if you’re running it too hot, but it will still work perfectly fine. The Lee 454 Casull 4 die set worked better than standard 45 Colt Dies. Other than that I think that if you make a set of 3 dummy rounds and use the longest length that cycles as fast as you can run the lever will be more important than which brand of dies you choose.

 

[Cheesemaker]

My Rossi 45 Colt lever gun has a loose chamber too. 8gr Unique behind a 255gr lead bullet, splits cases maybe 1 out of 30 - 50 rounds. Usually 2nd time reloads. Rem and Win brass. I do not have this issue with my Rossi 44Mag or 357Mag.

I am keen to see what the OP learns about resizing.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I’m a cowboy action shooter. Most folks assume that we are shooting .45 Colt; it’s the second most popular cartridge behind .38 Special but it’s still pretty common.

In the 19th Century there were no rifles chambered in .45 Colt. These came about in the late 1980s or in the 1990s to meet the demand of cowboy action shooters. Just a bit of history.

Some cartridge/rifle combinations produce a condition called “blowby”, when the cartridge does not make a good seal in the chamber, causing gas, carbon, unburned powder etc. to flow around the case into the action. The results vary from dirty cases, fouling inside the action, or particulates spitting into the shooter’s face.

The cause is the stiff walls of a .45 Colt case and generous chamber dimensions. A light load usually makes the problem worse, so using a heavier bullet and/or a heavier powder charge may eliminate or lessen blowby. Some shooters report good results from annealing the cases before reloading them. You can also try different brands of cases to see if that helps.

Rifles vary, even different rifles from the same manufacturers. Some rifles exhibit little or no blowby. Others do.

I would try the rifle with the ammo you intend to use before assuming that I have a problem to fix.

 

[BBarn]

My Hornady sizing die in 45 Colt measures at least .002" larger than my RCBS 45 Colt sizing die. Not sure how much of the difference is intentional versus manufacturing tolerance. The point is, die dimensions do vary.

I generally use the Hornady sizer for better chamber fit, and follow with a partial resize with the RCBS if needed for higher bullet tension.

Some brands of 45 Colt sizing dies may be slightly larger in diameter if they are designed for loading with cast bullets.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I have to add that a friend of mine, who is a mechanical engineer and very handy, struggled with blowby in a couple of rifles. He loads black powder cartridges and fouling in the action makes for an unhappy shooter. He tried several fixes but could not eliminate the blowby.

One day he called to tell me that he had finally solved the problem. “I bought a .44-40 rifle.”

 

[JDinFbg]

Some cartridge/rifle combinations produce a condition called “blowby”, when the cartridge does not make a good seal in the chamber, causing gas, carbon, unburned powder etc. to flow around the case into the action. The results vary from dirty cases, fouling inside the action, or particulates spitting into the shooter’s face.

The cause is the stiff walls of a .45 Colt case and generous chamber dimensions. A light load usually makes the problem worse, so using a heavier bullet and/or a heavier powder charge may eliminate or lessen blowby. Some shooters report good results from annealing the cases before reloading them. You can also try different brands of cases to see if that helps.

Rifles vary, even different rifles from the same manufacturers. Some rifles exhibit little or no blowby. Others do.

A friend gave me some ammo to try that he had loaded using 6.5 gr. of TITEGROUP driving 200 gr. cast bullets, and they all produced blow-by in my rifle. I'm pretty sure he FL sized the brass. So that's why I'm wondering how folks are sizing their 45 Colt brass for use in rifles. The Redding dual-ring carbide sizing die costs about $118, so I'm curious if any folks have use this die and if it solved any blow-by problems they may have had.

 

[Charlie98]

My brother has a Winchester Trapper in .45 Colt, the chamber is about the size of Rhode Island. Never had a problem with split cases, when I was shooting it, but it's down in Corpus now, so I don't see the fired brass very often, anymore.

My thought was to have a custom sizer made for it, one that doesn't size it down quite as much as my regular dies. If you are handy, you might be able to take a steel die... not a carbide or nitride coated die... and ream it. Granted, you would have to lube your cases, but it would be a sure-fire avenue to less case working.

 

[MTNSTRYDER]

I’m a cowboy action shooter. Most folks assume that we are shooting .45 Colt; it’s the second most popular cartridge behind .38 Special but it’s still pretty common.

In the 19th Century there were no rifles chambered in .45 Colt. These came about in the late 1980s or in the 1990s to meet the demand of cowboy action shooters. Just a bit of history.

Some cartridge/rifle combinations produce a condition called “blowby”, when the cartridge does not make a good seal in the chamber, causing gas, carbon, unburned powder etc. to flow around the case into the action. The results vary from dirty cases, fouling inside the action, or particulates spitting into the shooter’s face.

The cause is the stiff walls of a .45 Colt case and generous chamber dimensions. A light load usually makes the problem worse, so using a heavier bullet and/or a heavier powder charge may eliminate or lessen blowby. Some shooters report good results from annealing the cases before reloading them. You can also try different brands of cases to see if that helps.

Rifles vary, even different rifles from the same manufacturers. Some rifles exhibit little or no blowby. Others do.

I would try the rifle with the ammo you intend to use before assuming that I have a problem to fix.

I agree had a lot of black cases in my Redhawk and Blackhawk slightly better in my Rossi carbine.Then I started loading hot with little gun and H110 Ruger only loading.But don’t Ruger only load means a gun that is made for the pressure.

 

[sparkyv]

Good stuff here. Thanks for sharing, Crunchy Frog!

I’m a cowboy action shooter. Most folks assume that we are shooting .45 Colt; it’s the second most popular cartridge behind .38 Special but it’s still pretty common.

In the 19th Century there were no rifles chambered in .45 Colt. These came about in the late 1980s or in the 1990s to meet the demand of cowboy action shooters. Just a bit of history.

Some cartridge/rifle combinations produce a condition called “blowby”, when the cartridge does not make a good seal in the chamber, causing gas, carbon, unburned powder etc. to flow around the case into the action. The results vary from dirty cases, fouling inside the action, or particulates spitting into the shooter’s face.

The cause is the stiff walls of a .45 Colt case and generous chamber dimensions. A light load usually makes the problem worse, so using a heavier bullet and/or a heavier powder charge may eliminate or lessen blowby. Some shooters report good results from annealing the cases before reloading them. You can also try different brands of cases to see if that helps.

Rifles vary, even different rifles from the same manufacturers. Some rifles exhibit little or no blowby. Others do.

I would try the rifle with the ammo you intend to use before assuming that I have a problem to fix.

 

[FROGO207]

RCBS makes a 45 Colt die set used specifically for loading lead bullets. It is a couple thousands larger than the regular sized dies and seem to work better than regular sized dies with lead bullets. This may be enough extra diameter to work well for your needs. I have a regular set of Herters steel dies and a set of Lee carbide dies that I use for my revolvers. So far there have been no problems but my chambers are smaller than those in most rifles, so theres that. You might want to investigate those RCBS dies as well. Another option is to do a chamber cast and have one of the companies that make dies make you a custom one. That will probably be a steel one that will require lube but might be the best option.
Ultimately get a chamber cast done and see what you are working with. Then things might not be as bad as one reads on the web. Just sayi'n.

 

[RealGun]

I recently acquired a Marlin 1894 rifle in 45 Colt and need to tool-up for reloading it. I've read multiple posts about many rifle chambers for this cartridge being cut fairly large, cases not providing good gas seal during firing, and shortened case life if FL resized. I've read about Redding's dual-ring sizing die (very pricey) as one option, and others have indicated good results from only sizing the first part of the case. However, others have said the partial sizing did not work well for them. So, I'm kind of in a dilemma on what approach to take. I'm only interested in loading for this one rifle (not revolver), so I'd like to know what 45 Colt rifle reloaders have to say on this subject. If anyone out there is using the Redding dual-ring sizing die, do you feel the benefits were worth the high cost of the die?

I bought a set of RCBS Cowboy dies to accommodate lead bullet diameters but discovered that my Lee sizer was significantly larger and worked the brass less and was then more in sync with the expander. I am not getting any bullet image printing through the loaded case. I would suggest measuring whatever you have. I was suprised.

Last match this past Sunday I felt blow back from one mild cowboy round, so I understand the concern for chambers not sealing. My rifle is a JM Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited. I am not sure if this gun design will fire when not fully in battery, but I have had trigger timing issues before.

 

[JDinFbg]

I bought a set of RCBS Cowboy dies to accommodate lead bullet diameters but discovered that my Lee sizer was significantly larger and worked the brass less and was then more in sync with the expander. I am not getting any bullet image printing through the loaded case. I would suggest measuring whatever you have. I was suprised.

Last match this past Sunday I felt blow back from one mild cowboy round, so I understand the concern for chambers not sealing. My rifle is a JM Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited. I am not sure if this gun design will fire when not fully in battery, but I have had trigger timing issues before.

Mine is the same rifle, and I'm getting blow back with the 200 gr. bullet loads my friend gave me. What bullet weight and powder are you using in your mild cowboy loads?

 

[EricBu]

I have a Henry X, no issues at all. I'd load by the book until a problem reveals itself. Gearing up and doing things based on what you read on the internet is probably going to contribute to uneeded pain and frustration. Use the book, load to spec, if a problem reveals itself, adjust the plan, move forward.

 

[RealGun]

Mine is the same rifle, and I'm getting blow back with the 200 gr. bullet loads my friend gave me. What bullet weight and powder are you using in your mild cowboy loads?

5.5 Trailboss and 200 gr coated lead, .452, rated Brinell 15.

 

[JDinFbg]

I contacted RCBS Tech Support to ask about the difference between their Standard dies and their Cowboy dies for the 45 Colt. I've posted below my questions and the answers I got:

My Questions
I recently acquired a Marlin rifle in 45 Colt. In gearing up to acquire loading dies for this cartridge, I want to understand the precise differences between the Standard dies RCBS offers versus the Cowboy dies you offer. I want to be able to load both cast and jacketed bullets in my rifle. Thus, I need to know the following specific details:

1. How are the internal dimensions of the sizing die in the Standard versus the Cowboy die different?
2. How are the expanding dies in the Standard versus the Cowboy die different? I want to know internal die body and expander plug differences?
3. How are the bullet seating dies in the Standard versus the Cowboy die different?

RCBS Tech Support Response
Before cowboy dies came out you would have used the standard dies to reload lead cast and jacketed bullets the expander in the standard dies measure .449 in the cowboy dies you get two expanders .452 and .4505 and the seat plug is made to match the profile the bullets that come from our bullet mold part number 82307. The standard dies come with a round nose and semi-wad cutter plugs. Sizing dies are the same internal dimensions

 

[RealGun]

I contacted RCBS Tech Support to ask about the difference between their Standard dies and their Cowboy dies for the 45 Colt. I've posted below my questions and the answers I got:

My Questions
I recently acquired a Marlin rifle in 45 Colt. In gearing up to acquire loading dies for this cartridge, I want to understand the precise differences between the Standard dies RCBS offers versus the Cowboy dies you offer. I want to be able to load both cast and jacketed bullets in my rifle. Thus, I need to know the following specific details:

1. How are the internal dimensions of the sizing die in the Standard versus the Cowboy die different?
2. How are the expanding dies in the Standard versus the Cowboy die different? I want to know internal die body and expander plug differences?
3. How are the bullet seating dies in the Standard versus the Cowboy die different?

RCBS Tech Support Response
Before cowboy dies came out you would have used the standard dies to reload lead cast and jacketed bullets the expander in the standard dies measure .449 in the cowboy dies you get two expanders .452 and .4505 and the seat plug is made to match the profile the bullets that come from our bullet mold part number 82307. The standard dies come with a round nose and semi-wad cutter plugs. Sizing dies are the same internal dimensions

This is why that set can be a problem...the sizer, marked 45 Schofield/Colt, diameter makes cases stick on the larger diameter expander. You need a larger sizer to match. The RCBS Cowboy seater die does the crimp, so it is noteworthy that it does work on the larger diameter lead bullets. I found that my Hornady sizer was larger, .472 versus .468 yield, so my problem was solved by the mixed set.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Rifles vary, even different rifles from the same manufacturers...I would try the rifle with the ammo you intend to use before assuming that I have a problem to fix.

This exactly. Marlin's chambers in the 94C - .357 - and their older Model 94's in .41 and .44 don't run tight but they're also not exactly "loose" in my experience. I sold my 94 .357 a long time back for no good reason and probably ought to get another - but I have an H&R Handi-Rifle in .38Colt/Spl & .357Mag/Max and only really need one shot with a 200gr. .357magnum to get the job done, so I'm not eager to spend stupid-high money on one.

One thing to watch for with Marlin '94's - in .45Colt or any other caliber - is feed ramp and lifter problems because of overly long cartridges or angled nose profiles. Like Crunchy says, Marlin made those rifles FOR cowboy action shooting - light revolver loads with lead flat round nose bullets. I've had more than a few hunting buddies turn to hating Marlin because of their .45Colt Model 94 "Cowboy" and it's jammy lifter.

 

[sparkyv]

Good to know. My son just got the BBX and we're fixing to load some rounds up for it this weekend.

I have a Henry X, no issues at all. I'd load by the book until a problem reveals itself. Gearing up and doing things based on what you read on the internet is probably going to contribute to uneeded pain and frustration. Use the book, load to spec, if a problem reveals itself, adjust the plan, move forward.

What velocity are you getting with this load? We're loading up similar projectiles for his Henry.

5.5 Trailboss and 200 gr coated lead, .452, rated Brinell 15.

 

[MEHavey]

Read here:
https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/1894-45-colt-case-bulge-probably-an-old-topic.83380/

Partially resize twice, rotating the case 180 degrs 2nd time up for symmetry.
No problemmo...

 

[JDinFbg]

I found that my Lee sizer was larger, so my problem was solved.

Do you think that Lee intentionally makes their sizer dies larger, or did you just happen to get one that was on the larger end of the manufacturing tolerance? Is your Lee sizer carbide? Many on this and other forums have suggested that just about everyone's carbide sizing dies shrink cases down smaller than their respective standard dies.

 

[forrest r]

Buy a set of lee reloading dies and try them 1st to see where your at. If the lee dies sizes the brass too small there this product out there called diamond lapping paste.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirec...804014269509291&widgetName=sp_search_thematic

Simply open the sizing die up to your specs, caveman simple to do. I've done this with my 9mm and 45acp lee die sets. I wasn't opening the dies up to much (1/1000th"). Was really more interested in trueing/getting them round.

After you make your "custom" sizing die you'll want to use a "custom" expander button for your oversized bullets. Buy a lee universal expander die and then order a expander button from these guys, they make excellent products for little $$$$.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/

 

[RealGun]

Good to know. My son just got the BBX and we're fixing to load some rounds up for it this weekend.




What velocity are you getting with this load? We're loading up similar projectiles for his Henry.

Refer to Hodgdon data for some indication of rated velocity.

 

[RealGun]

Do you think that Lee intentionally makes their sizer dies larger, or did you just happen to get one that was on the larger end of the manufacturing tolerance? Is your Lee sizer carbide? Many on this and other forums have suggested that just about everyone's carbide sizing dies shrink cases down smaller than their respective standard dies.

It is a fact that my Hornady carbide sizer is larger than my RCBS Cowboy, but that could be just my good fortune. I corrected my earlier reference to Lee, because when double checking I found that my recollection was incorrect and the die I was using was actually Hornady. I believe their "Cowboy" set is the only 45 Colt I have in Hornady.