.45 Colt load data for Taurus Thunderbolt

[Wachtelhund]

I have Taurus Thunderbolt and would like to load 300 grain jacketed (.451) bullets to pressures above normal pistol loads, but not to dangerous P+ levels. I called Taurus in FL and asked what PSI the rifle would handle safely, they couldn't tell me. I might try calling a different day of the week.

I have fired factory loads through it and it seemed like I was shooting .22 shorts.

I've look up load data using 300 gr jacket bullets and H110 powder, 17 to 20 grains, but none have listed PSI data. I have seen other load data using 300 gr bullets and 23.5 grains of H110 max for P+ loads. I would like a load around 20,000 to 22,000 PSI.

I have have yet to try any reloads in the gun, period. I would like to use it as a home defense gun for my wife with lighted loads and a short range deer rifle. I have shortened the barrel to 20", added a front fire sight and a rear peep sight.

 

[rcmodel]

Bad idea.

The Thunderbolt / Colt Lightening copy is a very weak action, designed for Cowboy Action standard pressure loads.
It is not nearly as strong as a Marlin or Winchester lever-action .45 Colt.

I would not recommend exceeding Colt SAA handgun load data, and that includes staying with lead bullets in the 250 - 255 grain range.

With that said, a standard pressure .45 Colt load out of a rifle length barrel will knock the socks off Godzilla! They will very easily shoot clear through a deer, even out of a 4 3/4" handgun.
How much more do you want, or need?

rc

 

[ljnowell]

With that said, a standard pressure .45 Colt load out of a rifle length barrel will knock the socks off Godzilla! They will very easily shoot clear through a deer, even out of a 4 3/4" handgun.
How much more do you want, or need?

I want it killed, cleaned, and cooked with one shot.

Seriously though, a buddy of mine has an old model vaquero that he shoots thermo-nuclear handloads out of. He took a headshot on a doe last season from about 15 yards. It was devestating. Enough to make me want one, to use for home defense.

 

[Wachtelhund]

The Thunderbolt / Colt Lightening copy is a very weak action, designed for Cowboy Action standard pressure loads.
It is not nearly as strong as a Marlin or Winchester lever-action .45 Colt.

Well see that is why I posted here! I agree it is not as strong as a Marlin or Winchester.

I've been doing a lot of research on the Taurus Thunderbolt and have read that Taurus created a gun that is a letter-perfect duplicate of the Lightning, but, internally is a beefed up M62. So while it looks like a Colt Lighting from the outside the inside is something else.

Also, Cor-Bon states," that their 200 grain JHP load is loaded to around 21,000 to 23,000 PSI, which does exceed industry specifications for the .45 Colt pressures, but is not loaded as heavy as many Plus P loads, is safe to use in the Taurus.

I'm still looking for load data with pressure ratings.

 

[rcmodel]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

rc

 

[Wachtelhund]

Has anyone ever used RL-7 for .45 colt rifle loads?

After looking at numerous loading data sources, relative burn quickness and load data for the .45 colt, I think RL-7 would be a good bet for the .45 colt in a rifle. The problem with most .45 colt loads were they are for pistols and used pistol powder which burns to fast for a 20 inch rifle barrel. And .45 Colt P+ rifle loads were too hot for the Taurus Thunderbolt.

Other than cowboy loads, there isn't a lot of published load data for the .45 Colt and none with rifle powder. I came arcoss one load soucre listing one .45 Colt load with RL-7, but it was a P+ load: 300 grain JSP, 28 grains of RL-7 @ approximately 30,000 PSI.

So I looked at an old Alliant reloading book and the 44-40 WCF. The 44-40 and .45 colt are very similar. The .45 Colt case holds 2 grains of water more than the 44-40, but they were both designed for 40 grains of black powder and about 14,000 psi. Alliant published rifle and pistol load data for the 44-40 WCF. The published loads for pistol and rifle were almost exactly the same : the pistol being 240 grain lead bullet, 12.5 grains of 2400 powder, 1,130 fps @ 12,200 cup and the rifle being 12.0 grs at 12,500 psi.

The Alliant .45 Colt pistol load was a 250 lead bullet, 12 grs of 2400, 730 fps @ 12,200 cup. Almost identical, except for the velocity. Powder charge, bullet and pressuer were very close.

The Alliant book also listed an RL-7 rifle load for the 44-40 with the same 240 gr bullet: 23.5 grains of RL-7, 1,290 fps and 12,100 psi.

The two rounds and and load data are so close I think with a 10% reduction they'll give me a starting load, even though the .45 Colt case is 4% larger, and the bullet 10 grains heavier. I'll reduce the starting load by 10% and work up slowly. I think 23 grs of RL-7 for a 250 grain bullet and 21 grains for a 300 grain bullet would be about the max SAMMI psi of 15,000. This would be 7 grains less than the P+ RL-7 load.

At least now I have a starting load with rifle powder that is not P+. Tomorrow, I start loading a few rounds. I'll fire and crongraph several batches.

 

[brianr23]

Here is an interesting review of the Taurus Thunderbolt:

http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_Thunderbolt.htm

It references the Corbon load. Make sure you read the update at the bottom.

 

[Wachtelhund]

Tried loading some .45 colt shells with RL-7 and 250 and 300 grain jacketed bullets for the Taurus Thunderbolt with20" barrel. Started out with loads based off Alliant reloading data for the 44-40 and RL-7.

Alliant 44-40 rifle data showed 240 grain lead bullet, 23.5 grs RL-7, @ 1290fps and 12.2k cup out of a 16" barrel. I loaded a 250 gr JHP with 24 grs RL-7 and CCI 350 primer. Bullet was 10 grains more, but the Colt case has 4 percent more capacity and a larger diameter bullet. Chrongraph readings for five shots averaged 980fps. There was a lot of powder residue on the cases indicating low pressurer and no unbrunt powder in the barrel. Obviously, the Colt case can take more RL-7 powder in a 20" barrel. My goal would be to reach approx. 1290fps, with the assumption that if the 44-40 can 1290fps with RL-7 and remain at 12.2K cup the .45 colt also should be able to reach approx. 1290 and remain below 14k cup.

With the 300 JSP bullet, I did a lot of comparing of load data for the 44-40 rilfe and pistol data and 45 colt pistol data. Here I looked not only Alliant but Speer data and compared burn rates of several powders. I sort of established 23 grains for RL-7 as a max load for the Thunderbolt, after reading 28 grains would provide 30,000psi. I loaded shells at 15.0, 15.5,16.0,16.5, 17.0, 17.5 and 18.0 grains of RL-7. Chrongraph results were very low as expected, ranging from 370 to 690fps. I'll continue the incremental creep in loads up to 23 grains, or 1200fps; which ever comes first.

Many pistol loads reach these velocities with magnum pistol powders at P+ levels which I would like to avoid.

 

[NCsmitty]

I think you're headed in the right direction Wachtelhund.
I have found Rel-7 to be a great powder for that capacity of cartridge. It should be ideal for your application.
I have used it with near full power loads in 357 Maximum and 7.62x39.
Good luck.

NCsmitty

 

[Wachtelhund]

NC, It also, was my choice for 7.62 x 39.

 

[Wachtelhund]

Chrongraphed some more loads out of the Taurus Thunderbolt .45 Colt loads with RL-7 powder:

The Nosler 250 grain JHP bullet:
25.0 grains averaged 1,065 fps
25.5 grains averaged 1,100 fps
26.0 grains averaged 1,130 fps
26.5 grains averaged 1,160 fps.

Twenty-six and a half grains will be my max load with a 250 jacket bullet out of the Taurus Thunderbolt.

The Speer 300 grain JSP:
21 grains averaged 810 fps
21.5 grains averaged 860 fps
22.0 grains averaged 870 fps
22.5 grains averaged 881 fps
23.0 grains averaged 973 fps
23.5 grains averaged 1,000 fps

Twenty-three and a half grains will be my max hunting load with a 300 jacket bullet out of the Taurus Thunderbolt.

All cases, even from the heavier loads cases had a lot of powder residue on the out side indicating there was still a lack of pressurer sufficent to fully expand an seal the case to the chamber and there was no unbrunt powder in the barrel. Of course the cases showed no signs of excessive pressurer. The rifle had only moderate recoil and handled them fine. I'm sure I could still go a little higher as the cases still had room for more powder, but better safe than sorry. A 300 grain bullet at 1,000 fps is more than enough for deer.

I have no idea of the psi of these loads, so anyone duplicating them should start out low as I did and develop your own. Since, I used RL-7, I believe the psi is lower than the Speer load data for 45 Colt Ruger & Contender using their 300 grain bullet.

 

[rcmodel]

RL-7 in the .45 Colt?

Now, thats an odd combination!!

rc

 

[Wachtelhund]

Rifle powders for rifles. It works!

 

[GooseGestapo]

Not knowing for sure just how strong the Thunderbolt really is, I've deferred to err on the safe side.

Like rcmodel said, what more do you really need ?

My best friend has a Thunderbolt that I worked with him on developing a load for. Ends up that my favorite load was the best in it too. (I've got a WinM94 "Legacy" w/24"bbl and a Ruger Redhawk w/5.5"bbl.)

With a Lee 255gr RFN, over 7.8gr of Universal, we're getting 1,200fps.(from 24" bbl- 985fps from 5.5") At 50yds It'll shoot 3" groups.

He took a 100lb whitetail doe with it on Dec.5,'08. Bullet entered the left shoulder, penetrated through the chest, paunch, and exited just in front of the right ham. You could stick your thumb in both entry and exit wound. Deer ran ~70ft and collapsed. Two short, wide blood trails....

It's been said that the load will penetrate a medium sized bull..........
Any more velocity is only going to flatten the trajectory, and bullet on impact. No increase in "knock=down".

I've got a 310gr WFN-GC mould, but much prefer the 'ole 255 RFN.

I've also got a Marlin M1895 GuideGun. With a 405gr FN at 1,850fps, It dosen't do significantly better on itty-bitty deer. Just slaps me harder !!!

Again, how much more do you need?

 

[joedapro]

there is nothing on this planet that 8-9 grains of unique and a 250-300 grain hard cast bullet wont kill. and, this is in the standard pressure range. load accordingly and be safe.

remember this cartrige was designed to take the horse out from under the rider. so if it was designed to kill a 2000 pound horse,it most certainly can cleanly take a 200 pound deer.

 

[claual]

I know, this is one old tread but I'm interest.
The thunderbolt come in 357 magnum and 45 LC.

357
Diameter (case ext) in 357 is 0.963 cm, surface = Pi * r2 = 0.72835 cm2.
Pressure in 357 is 3000 Bar = 44000 psi = 3093.506 kg/cm2
Force = Surface * Pressure = 0.72835 * 3093.506 = 2253.155 Kg

45 LC
Diameter (case ext) in 45LC is 1.219 cm, surface = Pi * r2 = 1.1671 cm2
Pressure = force(357) kg / surface cm2 = 2253.155 / 1.1671 = 1930.558 kg/cm2
The rifle resist 45 LC loads of the range 1930.558 kg/cm2 = 27459 PSI NORMALY
27000 PSI is not danger for your rifle.

OF COURSE, ALL IS CORRECT IF YOUR CASE/PRIME SUPPORT THIS.

I reload 255 gr Lead (Lee mould) standard large pistol primes and 24 gr W296 with starline cases; persist smoke in fired case, can try up next time.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

interesting post even if brought back from the past, I was considering a pump action chambered for pistol round.

 

[DWFan]

Accurate Arms lists load data for the .45 Colt at the pressure levels the OP wanted. Even though they are listed under "Ruger/Contender" loads, they are actually the .45 Colt loaded to .45 ACP pressure levels.

 

[jmortimer]

I'm not sure if OAL is an issue but with the "New" Vaqueros" the cylinder length will limit you to about 280 grains as the "nose" will to too long function.