45 colt vs 44 spcl

[hrubison]

It's hard to beat a good cartridge debate, so how about this one. It seems to me both are relatively similar to velocity & bullet weight. Maybe the main difference is that 44 spcl, I believe, was designed for smokeless powder & the 45 was designed as a blackpowder? I like the 45 colt, but it does have a large case with a small powder charge. What are your thoughts?

 

[huntershooter]

.44Special is at it'e best with velocities in the 900-1100 fps range with midweight bullets of 240 gr.+-.
The .45 Colt is much more versatile in that it can be pushed to 1300 fps+ ith a 300 gr.+ bullet in an appropriate revolver (Ruger, FA).
Both are great calibers.

 

[Lucky Derby]

My two favorite cartridges.

 

[CraigC]

In guns of the strength class appropriate to the .44Spl, like mid-frame single actions, it has the definite edge. In Colt SAA's, replicas and mid-frame Rugers you are fully capable of pushing the Keith 250gr SWC to 1200fps in the .44Spl and the cartridge is much more efficient. In similar guns, the .45Colt must be kept to 1000-1100fps at the absolute most.

In large frame guns like Ruger Blackhawks, you're really only comparing the .45Colt to the .44Mag. Here is where the .45 starts coming into its own, where you can start using some of its cavernous case capacity. It can be loaded near .44Mag velocities with similar bullet weights.

Where the .45 really shines is in strong rifles like the modern 1892 replica, the Ruger Redhawk and in custom five-shot revolvers. In 1892 rifles, 260's can be pushed over 2000fps at 40-45,000psi. In the Redhawk, there is plenty of 45-50,000psi data in circulation. In custom five-shooters, you're up to 55,000psi and rivalling the .454.

 

[Cosmoline]

The diameter makes a difference in engineering, even if it may not in terminal impact. In today's market with the firearms available I'd say the .45 Colt holds a clear lead. But I think the .44 Special is the better cartridge by design with a thicker rim and usually thicker walls on the brass. What's lacking are SP-101 size five shot "bulldog" style revolvers from Ruger or Smith. The ones out there are from outfits with a more questionable quality control record. So some work great, others not so great. Not acceptable in a carry piece as far as I'm concerned. And I have no idea why the big guys never revived the concept of the bulldog. While the .45 Colt truly shines as a beefed up hunting round, the .44 Special is at its best as a self defense round in soft lead with a hollow point.

 

[thewilbur]

44 Special VS 45 Colt

I have had a great deal of luck with my 44 Special (S&W model 624 with a 6" barrel) using 6 grains of W231 and a 240 grain lead bullet. I have also had fine accuracy with 5.7 grains of Unique and 5.1 grains of Accurate #2 using the 240 grain bullet.

My 45 Colt Rugers are more fussy. I have tested many loads from Cowboy to +P. I really like Trail Boss. I use 6.7 grains of Trail Boss (Lee Dipper 1.6) with lead bullets from 200 grain to 255 grain. Titegroup worked well for me using 6.2 grains and a 255 grain lead bullet. However, I have had erratic results using the same charge and 200 grain lead bullets. This may have been because I was using old, work-hardened brass. Another good load was 6.8 grains of Unique with either Hornady 250 grain JHP or hard cast lead bullets.

For the heavy stuff, loads I would only use in my Ruger or a handgun of similar strenth, I like 24.5 grains (Lee Dipper 1.6 again) of H110 with a Leadhead 270 grain Keith wadcutter.

My "tweener" loads (still intended for +P rated handguns) include 7.5 grains of Titegroup and the Leadhead 270 grain Keith lead bullets. Also, the Hornady 250 grain JHP bullets with 8.3 grains of Unique.

Next month I will experiment with Penn bevel-based 225 grain .452 wadcutters and powders that will include W231 and Ramshot True Blue. The folks at Penn suggested that I start with lighter loads, or powder volumes intended for 255 grain bullets, because the wadcutters fill so much of the case. The folks at Ramshot were kind enough to send me +P loading data as well as that for standard Colt 45 pressure.

 

[Slamfire]

I have them both. In a number of different variations.

I cannot tell a bucket of spit difference between a 240 grain .429 diameter bullet going 850 fps and a 255 grain .452” going 850 fps.

I think the 44 Special is a bit more accurate at distance, but it may be due to the trigger. The trigger on my M624 is just wonderful. So is the trigger on my M25-7 45 LC.

Flip a coin.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

But I think the .44 Special is the better cartridge by design with a thicker rim and usually thicker walls on the brass.

Nope -- some .44 Specials have thicker walls than .44 Magnums, because many .44 Magums were made by simply drawing out .44 Special brass a little more, resulting in thinner walls.

If you section various makes of brass you will find modern .45 Colt brass is just as thick as .44 Magnum brass.

 

[saltydog452]

wilbur,

If I read correctly, by volume only, 6.7 Trail Boss fills the same space as 24.5 of H110?

I've never messed with Trail Boss. Does it need a Magnum primer to get it to start burning evenly?

Thanks,

salty

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You said, "I like the 45 Colt but it does have a large case with a small powder charge." Why let something like that move you off something you like? I also like the .45 Colt and much more than the .44 Special. I feel the .45 Colt is more versatile than the .44 Special. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the .44 Special, I just like the .45 Colt more.

 

[loadedround]

There's a difference between the two? I'll be damned!

 

[CraigC]

I feel the .45 Colt is more versatile than the .44 Special.

Like I posted two months ago, that is ENTIRELY dependent upon the platform. In platforms appropriately sized for the .44Spl, it has the distinct advantage. In platforms where the .45Colt comes into its own, the .44Mag steps in for its predecessor and evens the playing field.

 

[Waywatcher]

If I read correctly, by volume only, 6.7 Trail Boss fills the same space as 24.5 of H110?

I've never messed with Trail Boss. Does it need a Magnum primer to get it to start burning evenly?

Thanks,

salty

I can tell you this:

When I switch from Trail Boss to 2400 in my Uniflow without making any adjustments, my charges go from about 4.2 to about 11.8.

Roughly speaking Trail Boss is 3 times lighter than 2400 for the same volume in my experience.

IMR load data on their website calls out which primer to use, and in my experience the Trail Boss burns very well.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I've never messed with Trail Boss. Does it need a Magnum primer to get it to start burning evenly?

I have used Trail Boss in my .45 Colt with both standard and magnum primers and have been unable to tell any difference. I love it.

 

[Tachardiapsyche]

Really, it just depends on the gun you put it in.

I won't get into which revolver is best for what, but if you think about it;

There is no "45 Colt" Magnum...



...good thread, good answers. I'm a big fan of the Charter Bulldog 44 btw I'm glad the other mfg's never tried to copy it and put an internal lock into it. Not too many can do it better than they already do.

 

[kludge]

There is no "45 Colt" Magnum...

There sure is/are, and it/they blow(s) the .44 Special's Magnum(s) out of the water!

.460 Mag > .454 Casull > .445 Super Mag > .44 Mag

But really, in the right gun the .45 Colt at FA/Ruger pressures hardly needs a magnum.

 

[CraigC]

"Magnum" is such a overused, misused, abused and overrated term anyway.

 

[saltydog452]

Got it. Thanks.

sd.

 

[Jim K]

They are peas in a pod. In the old days, it was a matter of which gun you preferred, since Colt didn't chamber for .44 S&W Special and S&W didn't chamber for .45 Colt.

Jim

 

[Taildragger-J3]

Obviously, most of these posts have made reference to handloaded ammo. Factory loaded 45LC is probably easier to come by and PROBABLY has more variety than the 44 Special. (unresearched opinnio) I too load my 44 special and really like the flexibility it provides. I LOVE shooting my 44 as well. I've handled a few 45LCs but don't own one at the moment. When I had the choice, I bought the 44 instead of the 45.

"Ya pays your money and ya makes your choices" mine was the 44 Spec.

 

[Tachardiapsyche]

You might say the .454 is a 45 Colt Magnum, but it's not in my opinion as only three or four revolvers were ever built around it. It's a wildcat with factory support and considering those mfg's were garbage like taurus and ruger I don't consider it worth mentioning and certainly not on the same plane as the 45LC and 44 rounds.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like I posted two months ago, that is ENTIRELY dependent upon the platform. In platforms appropriately sized for the .44Spl, it has the distinct advantage. In platforms where the .45Colt comes into its own, the .44Mag steps in for its predecessor and evens the playing field.

IMO you shouldn't mention the .44 Magnum in this context. If you want to mention the .44 Magnum I'll say the same for the 454 Casull.

 

[CraigC]

IMO you shouldn't mention the .44 Magnum in this context.

I mention the .44Mag because the .45 has such a broad spectrum of relative strength levels. You can't say that one is more versatile than the other without any regard for the platform. Because, one more time, in platforms of appropriate size for the .44Spl, such as the late model Colt or USFA SAA and mid-frame Rugers, it has the advantage. For in these guns the 1200fps Keith load can be utilized, while the .45Colt is limited to around 1000fps. It is silly to compare the .44Spl to the .45Colt with regards to large frame Rugers because they are not made in .44Spl, nor is a .44Mag-sized Ruger appropriate for the .44Spl. If you're gonna compare large frames, assuming 32,000psi loads in the .45Colt, then it is only logical and fair to compare it to the .44Mag. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The .454 is irrelevant.

 

[Nicodemus38]

another expert thing here.

the golden standard has been "200 grains of hardcast bullet at a velocity of 1,000fps'. 45 colt can do that with standard SAAMI pressure no problem what soever. the 44 special can do it also.
based on that golden standard, 44 special and 45 long colt are better for hunting then a 357 based upon bullet weight.

however if you based everything upon meplat diameter, 44 special swc can have a meplat larger then .357, making it superior. 45 lc is thus superior to 357 and 44 special based on that requirement.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you're gonna compare large frames, assuming 32,000psi loads in the .45Colt, then it is only logical and fair to compare it to the .44Mag. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The .454 is irrelevant.

I beg to differ. The .44 Magnum was developed by increasing the pressure and velocity of the .44 Special much in the way the .454 Casull was developed by pushing the pressure and velocity of the .45 Colt. Both stories are very similar. One difference is Dick Casull chose to name the new cartridge after himself instead of calling it a .45 Magnum or .45 Colt Magnum. (or something similar)