.458 American Express:

[Maverick223]

It kills me that the 4-bore round is a soft-point. Like it'd make a bit of difference!

I think it looks pretty funny, but that's the way it came (it should come as no big surprise that I haven't the rifle to go with the cartridge), but at the modest velocity it travels at and with the awe inspiring momentum, I think it'll keep going just fine, even if it sheds a few ounces en route.

I have no experienced advice or help to offer, but as a big proponent of 'bigger is better' I really have to take my hat off to you!

Doubt that I'll be going much bigger than this...unless I get a chance to pick up a .470NE or .500NE double at some point, but I, too, like the big ones...what little bit they may lack in velocity, they more than make up for with confidence boosting thump.

I really don't imagine that you'd have any trouble getting the round approved for the Big 5 in Africa. 99% of the fellas I know that've hunted them have used either .375 H&H or .416 Rigbys. One Particularly good friend of mine, now guiding Buffalo hunters in Australia, has taken Leopard, Cape Buff & Giraffe with a .50 roundball. Nooooot forseeing many issues with ANY centerfire starting with a 4!

Despite the more than adequate performance, I have heard that it is very difficult to get most cartridges approved. Unless I'm afforded the opportunity to hunt something larger than Cape Buff. (in which case, I should be able to afford a more appropriate stopper), I'll probably just stick with my little 'ole .375H&H, as I shoot it well...and it holds more than one.

One quick question: Other than it not being a rimless, belted casing, how h=far does it deviate from the dimensions of a .458 LOTT?

Would loadings for this cartridge possibly work for you? I know the LOTT produces around 62K psi in full loadings, but would reduced load info be any use?

It's .45in. longer, and 8 thousands smaller at the base (so still quite a bit larger). The loads might be suitable, do to the larger capacity, but with the dimensional and pressure differences I don't want to take the chance. BTW, A-Square's "Any Shot You Want" manual is a valuable resource for most of these large cartridges (including the Lott & .450NE, amongst others).

 

[Walkalong]

AA 5744 is another good option for downloading your .458 to mid range levels. It is very bulky, fills the case reasonably well, and isn't real position sensitive. Powder position makes a difference in velocity, but not a real big one.

 

[philuk44]

Exceeds the performance of a 45-120 by quite a margin?
Having fired a 45-120 in a Shiloh Sharps I doff my cap to you sir..............

Phil

 

[Maverick223]

AA 5744 is another good option for downloading your .458 to mid range levels. It is very bulky, fills the case reasonably well, and isn't real position sensitive. Powder position makes a difference in velocity, but not a real big one.

That was my first thought. It's more our less a BP substitute, so it should be just about right.

As a side-note, I did a little more research on Trail-boss loads and found one report (from one of the developers @ Accurate IIRC) that suggested it was unsuitable for use in large, low-pressure cases, and could result in pressure spikes. This counters everything that I know and have heard about the powder, so I'd like to hear any first hand accounts from anyone using it in similar cartridges, or any documentation that proves or refutes the claim. My goals for the light load, in order of preference is as follows: to have as low of pressure as practicable to better case life, to use as little powder as possible (while maintaining safety, accuracy, & decent velocity using inexpensive light bullets), and reduce recoil to roughly moderate-heavy .45-70Govt. levels.

 

[Maverick223]

Phil, in my limited experience, (I don't shoot much black...too much clean-up for my taste) BP loads tend to have more recoil than comparable nitro loads. I imagine this is due to the greater powder weight. At any rate, it'll still be a fair bit more, but having shot a Rigby, amongst others, I think it'll be manageable with good technique. Needless to say, I don't think I'll be firing it from the prone.

 

[Walkalong]

As a side-note, I did a little more research on Trail-boss loads and found one report (from one of the developers @ Accurate IIRC) that suggested it was unsuitable for use in large, low-pressure cases, and could result in pressure spikes. This counters everything that I know and have heard about the powder, so I'd like to hear any first hand accounts from anyone using it in similar cartridges

I have not read that. I have shot 101% load density rounds with Trail Boss under a Hornady 350 Gr jacketed bullet in .458 Win Mag. It gives around 1175 FPS. No signs of a problem so far. It is like a little poot from a heavy rifle, but still has some pop.

I would like to see any articles as well. Surely IMR would include it in their Trail Boss data for rifles if there was a problem.

 

[Maverick223]

I have serious doubts as well...I'll see if I can find the source.

EDIT: Found it, see the top post on the second page. Keep in mind that this was [purportedly] a message from a fmr. ballistician for Accurate Arms powder company (which is, of course, a competing nitrocellulose gunpowder manufacturer).

 

[Hizzie]

Any forward progress?

 

[Maverick223]

Not yet, I've been too busy to call the gunsmith, but I'm hoping that he's pretty close to completion as it's been some time now and it's a fairly simple task (but like any smith worth taking something to I'm certain that his backlog is lengthy).

 

[Hizzie]

Well?

 

[Maverick223]

Nothing to report yet, need to give the smith a call and find out if there's a problem. I'll be sure to update as soon as I know something concrete.

 

[Hizzie]

Are we there yet?

 

[Maverick223]

Nope, I wish...my gunsmith is "behind due to a BATF audit". :banghead:

 

[C-grunt]

That sucks. We want all to see this beast. Good luck dude.

 

[Maverick223]

Thank you for the kind words, C-grunt. I'll let you folks know as soon as I have it in hand and be sure to give performance updates after working up loads (both hot and "mild").

 

[Hizzie]

Is it done YET? Or is your gunsmith in prison?

 

[browningguy]

My 45-70 plinking load in an 1885 Browning is 50 gr. of RL7 with a 300 gr. JSP on top. This gives me around 2100 fps and is a pleasant load in this gun. With RL7 you can go well over 2400 FPS with a compressed charge of 65 grains, but that doesn't feel good with the curved metal buttplate on mine.

 

[Maverick223]

Is it done YET? Or is your gunsmith in prison?

I wish I could say yes, and I just haven't had the time to update, but that's not the case. Last we spoke I was told that my 'smith had been encumbered by a few unfortunate and unexpected events (in addition to the ATF audit) that pushed back the project (as well as another rifle that I'm having him re-blue for me) even farther, but I'm hoping that it'll come soon...otherwise I think I'll have to hunt for a new one for any future project that should arise (not because this one is too slow, but because he told me it would be done month's ago and I value honesty and punctuality as much as quality work and favorable attitude).

browningguy, my maximum .45-70Govt. charge with a 300gr. SP was 65.0gr. of No. 7 (highly compressed 66-67.0gr. proof load did just fine with no signs of excessive pressure...but I was afraid to push it any higher; I believe that to be a prudent and wise decision, finding the absolute maximum pressure is a foolhardy venture best left to others IMO). It actually wasn't that bad with my version (which has a pretty decent butt-pad) and surprisingly isn't that hard on brass despite the pressure. Unfortunately I have misplaced my chrono data, so I don't recall precisely what my average velocity was, but IIRC it was in the 2450fps neighborhood out of my 28in. heavy octagon (which I imagine is the same bbl fitted to your copy). My standard load (with the same bullet) was 62.0gr of the same powder...it was a powder-puff by comparison (it's amazing how much of a change a sub-5% increase in powder can make when you dial it up that hot).