45ACP 230gr RMR FMJ RN - Winchester WST

[Blue68f100]

Thanks for the comments. For now I am staying away from SWC's due to reliability, but I also think that the 185gr/200gr bullets are more accurate. One of these days I will work up some loads with jacketed 185gr or 200gr bullets.

4.1-4.2 gr is a classic BE load used for years by some of the top BE Shooters. The 200 gr is what most used for 50 yrd accuracy. I found it to be a little more accurate at 50 yrds over the 185gr. Could not tell any difference at 25 yrds.

 

[murf]

Seating bullet deeper where case wall is thicker increases neck tension which can improve powder burn efficiency (Especially if you are using lighter powder charges for target load) and/or low pressure larger volume case like 45ACP.

When I conduct load development, I will do power work up with longest working OAL to identify the powder charge that produces smallest groups. Then (If I am not at max charge) I will incrementally decrease the OAL (by .005") to see if accuracy improves. If accuracy improves, I will use shorter OAL. If my OAL reduction is significant, I may consider powder charge reduction while watching accuracy trend.

i was hoping livelife would jump in here. this is what i'm trying to say.

thx,

murf

 

[Erief0g]

Interesting read. Put wst on my list of need to try. I've got 5 lbs titegroup, 6 lbs unique. 5 lbs bullseye, 5lbs trailboss, and maybe three to four lbs sport pistol.

All the above fill in gaps when needed for 9mm and 45. The unique and some h110 have only been used in my 44mag but pretty sure the unique can do more.

From reviews here it looks like wst gets a nod as accurate and meters well. My Dillon powder drops are all polished, have a powder baffle to help, and have a light spring to return the powder drop bar back. They do much better than they did as new but I'm always looking for another powder.

 

[Cannibul]

WST is all that In use in my 45acp 185gr, and 200gr LSWC. I using reduced loads below starting min of 4.4gr. Just work backwards on your load workup till you start getting malfunction on feeding then step up 0.1 gr. Like said it's reverse temp sensitive powder. I use WSF for my heavier loads. WST burns ultra clean at reduced loads. My 1911 is a SS with polished sided. I can shoot 100 rounds and the gun is cleaner than 1 mag of BE. And it's being a ball powder it meters well in most all dispensers.

I'm pretty sure that WST is not a ball powder. I've run through over 20 lbs of it in the past four years.

 

[Erief0g]

From mfg site

 

[Cannibul]

Sorry, but it doesn't look like any ball powders that Winchester makes.

 

[Erief0g]

Agreed. Personally I get most of my "how does it meter"from users of the powder here. A few well placed favorable posts and I've got it on my list.

 

[LiveLife]

I'm pretty sure that WST is not a ball powder

W231/HP-38/WSF etc. are coated ball powder of different size that's been flattened as shown in below comparison picture. In comparison, WST is also flattened ball powder (As Erief0g/Winchester posted) without the black coating - https://shop.hodgdon.com/winchester/winchester-wst#:~:text=Winchester WST is a ball,are benefits to the shooter.

Winchester WST is a ball powder

And N320/N340, Sport Pistol, Vectan powders are cut extruded powders (Sport Pistol/Vectan cut shorter than N320/N340) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10094185

Close up of W231/HP-38 shows different ball granules having flattened on top of each other showing irregular indentation like debri causing primer cup indentation while Sport Pistol shows same diameter from cut extrusion like N320/N340/Vectan powders.

And Lovex/Shooters World powders are very fine irregular granule ball/sticks smaller in size than Sport Pistol - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/shooter’s-world-lovex-ultimate-pistol-powder-and-9mm.873721/#post-11613492

 

[rabid wombat]

Thanks for the comments. I did not realize that WST will fill the case. based on my calculation it seem that I will be using around .5cc, which is not bad.

It does not fill the case, but a double charge is much easier for me to see than a double charge of Bullseye. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[LiveLife]

I just took a close up picture of WST and it does look like flattened ball powder without the black coating

 

[vaalpens]

I had 500 plated SWC's... they may have been Berrys, I don't remember. One of my Kimbers liked them, the other had feeding issues, and my Kahr would feed them not at all. Soooo... I'll just stick with RN bullets.

Thanks. I loaded the Berrys 200gr SWC and 200gr RS, both plated. The round shoulder bullet was a much smoother feeding round in the P220.

 

[vaalpens]

yes. it may get the powder to burn better with the increased pressure. i have noticed changes in accuracy by adjusting c.o.l..

murf

It is probably more than just more pressure. More pressure with less powder, better neck tension, and all those technical things LiveLife always writes about. I definitely think it makes sense to start playing with the COL once you found the most accurate load, and then try and tweak it just that little bit. I'll keep it in my bag of tricks/good practices for the next time I am close, but just not there.

 

[vaalpens]

Seating bullet deeper where case wall is thicker increases neck tension which can improve powder burn efficiency (Especially if you are using lighter powder charges for target load) and/or low pressure larger volume case like 45ACP.

When I conduct load development, I will do power work up with longest working OAL to identify the powder charge that produces smallest groups. Then (If I am not at max charge) I will incrementally decrease the OAL (by .005") to see if accuracy improves. If accuracy improves, I will use shorter OAL. If my OAL reduction is significant, I may consider powder charge reduction while watching accuracy trend.

Excellent points and thanks for reminding me of those best practices. Next time I will definitely play with the COL a bit when I have results close to where I want to be, and just try and squeeze that extra bit of accuracy out of the load.

 

[vaalpens]

I’d be interested to know what a “#18” ranking is?

I worked up a 230gr RN Rainier plated With 4.4gr of WST at 1.230” and it just makes major in a P220 Elite. WST is one of my favorite .45 target load powders, good precision, good metering and fairly clean. It works well in .40 too.
At the time I was also shooting HAPs and MGs JHP with WST.

If you’re looking at faster powders, Clays is another good contender, IMR Red and Target, and of course Titegroup. I’ve yet to try N310 but it’s on the list for the next order whenever that happens. Good luck!

Thanks for sharing your load data.

I keep track of all my test results and rank the the similar test method results. The #18 ranking is my 18th best result tested at 15yards. For 45acp I have a 200gr plated SWC rated at #4 with a .49" grouping, and a 200gr plates RS rated at #10 with a .539" grouping. Since these a jacketed bullets, my expectation is to at least get a .5" grouping.

I am always in competition with myself and between my cartridges. Out of my top 10 I have 4 x 457sig loads, 3 x 40s&w loads, 2 x 45acp loads, and 1 x 9mm load. After this attempt to find a top 10 45acp load, my next task will be to find some additional top 10 9mm loads.

 

[vaalpens]

4.1-4.2 gr is a classic BE load used for years by some of the top BE Shooters. The 200 gr is what most used for 50 yrd accuracy. I found it to be a little more accurate at 50 yrds over the 185gr. Could not tell any difference at 25 yrds.

Thanks for the information. It is probably time for me to have a shoot-off between my best grouping loads. I will probably do it at 25 yards, instead of 50.

 

[vaalpens]

Interesting read. Put wst on my list of need to try. I've got 5 lbs titegroup, 6 lbs unique. 5 lbs bullseye, 5lbs trailboss, and maybe three to four lbs sport pistol.

All the above fill in gaps when needed for 9mm and 45. The unique and some h110 have only been used in my 44mag but pretty sure the unique can do more.

From reviews here it looks like wst gets a nod as accurate and meters well. My Dillon powder drops are all polished, have a powder baffle to help, and have a light spring to return the powder drop bar back. They do much better than they did as new but I'm always looking for another powder.

Thanks. There are a few reloaders that swear on the accuracy of WST, so I just finally had to give it a try.

 

[murf]

It is probably more than just more pressure. More pressure with less powder, better neck tension, and all those technical things LiveLife always writes about. I definitely think it makes sense to start playing with the COL once you found the most accurate load, and then try and tweak it just that little bit. I'll keep it in my bag of tricks/good practices for the next time I am close, but just not there.

i have already done this for my 9mm loads. playing with the c.o.l. does affect accuracy. i have the targets to prove it. i shoot @ 25 yards, so it is easier to see which c.o.l. is more accurate. i don't think one could tell the difference @ 10 yards.

murf

 

[vaalpens]

i have already done this for my 9mm loads. playing with the c.o.l. does affect accuracy. i have the targets to prove it. i shoot @ 25 yards, so it is easier to see which c.o.l. is more accurate. i don't think one could tell the difference @ 10 yards.

murf

Thanks!

I just picked up a brick of federal #150 today. Not sure yet if i will try the 150's, or just stick with the CCI300's like my previous loads. Probably better go with CCI300 for an apples to apples comparison.

i have already done this for my 9mm loads. playing with the c.o.l. does affect accuracy. i have the targets to prove it. i shoot @ 25 yards, so it is easier to see which c.o.l. is more accurate. i don't think one could tell the difference @ 10 yards.

murf

Thanks for the comments. So do you see a trend with the COL? Certain guns just like a shorter COL, or certain headstamps perform better with a certain COL?

 

[vaalpens]

Completed the test loads last night:
Cases: Federal
Primer: CCI300
Loads: 4.1gr to 4.8gr with .1gr increments
COL: 1.250"
Crimp: Lee FCD
Bullet: RMR 230gr FMJ RN

 

[Dudedog]

I have been meaning to try WST in .45, looking forward to your results

 

[Walkalong]

W231/HP-38/WSF etc. are coated ball powder of different size that's been flattened as shown in below comparison picture. In comparison,

Yep

 

[Dudemeister]

I've just finished loading a 230gr Berry's hybrid hollow point over 3.8gr of Clays. I've used Unique before about 5.7gr for a plated Berry's round nose, but currently my go to powder for .45ACP is Clays. Clean burning, more accurate than I am.

The 1.26" OAL, I found to be way too long for my pistols. I use a SIG 1911, and a Kimber Ultra Carry II, and based on the "plunk" test I found that the max. OAL is 1.221"

Edit:. I had previously put 1.16" for the OAL which is wrong, so I re-measured and the actual OAL is 1.221".

 

[vaalpens]

I have been meaning to try WST in .45, looking forward to your results

Now you tell me. I thought it is your favorite powder in 45acp.

I know you like WST in 9mm, so I have finally decided try WST, even though in 45acp.

I just need to remember to not leave my chrono, tripod and gun rest at home, then I should have results to share.

 

[Charlie98]

Completed the test loads last night:
Cases: Federal
Primer: CCI300
Loads: 4.1gr to 4.8gr with .1gr increments
COL: 1.250"
Crimp: Lee FCD
Bullet: RMR 230gr FMJ RN

I'll be curious to see what your impressions are. My last test load was 5.2grn WST under a 200grn RMR RN bullet @ 1.23"... a book max charge that produced only 730fps.

 

[Dudedog]

I know you like WST in 9mm, so I have finally decided try WST, even though in 45acp.

My favorite for 9mm is WSF, different animal than WST