45ACP 230gr RMR FMJ RN - Winchester WST

[vaalpens]

I have been working up loads in 45ACP with 230gr FMJ RN bullets, and have yet to find that excellent grouping load with my SIG P220.

The way I test my reloads is to use a cheap rest, with a cheap scope at 15 yards. With all the cartridges I have tested with this testing method, the best I could do with 230gr FMJ RN bullets is a #18 ranking. With all the powders I have tried, following are the best rankings I have seen with a 230gr FMJ RN bullet:
#18 (burn rate #12) - 700x
#21 (burn rate #13) - Bullseye
#32 (burn rate #29) - HP38
#69 (burn rate #31) - W244
#78 (burn rate #51) - Longshot
#124(burn rate #?? probably around HP38) - SportPistol

So it seems that the faster the powder, the higher the possibility of an accurate load. It probably makes sense since 45acp has always been know as a cartridge that favors a faster powder.

The problem is that I don't have any fast powders that I can try to improve on my grouping ranking, so I had to do some research and look for a new fast powder.

It seems that WST (burn rate #22) is seen as a powder that works well with 45acp, and it is in the faster powder category. Today I picked up 1lb of WST to see if I can improve on the 700x #18 ranking. WST supposedly meters well, so even if it is close to the 700x results, then probably I will start using WST since 700x does not meters that well.

For now I am planning on loading and testing the following loads:
RMR 230gr FMJRN
Winchester WST 4.1, 4.3, 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 4.9
CCI 300
COL 1.250
Federal cases
Testing will be done at 15 yards with a SIG P220

All test results will be posted on this thread.

Let me know if you have any experience with WST and 45acp, and especially with a SIG P220. Any comments will be appreciated.

 

[1KPerDay]

Great powder, particularly for light to moderate loads IME. I wager you’ll get a good one.

 

[buba68]

WST is one of the go to powders for 45acp usually gives a milder recoil impulse than some others. You should be able to find an accurate load using it.
I use it for my main load in my 1911 typically 4.4 grains and it shoots well for me using 230gr fmj bullet.

 

[vaalpens]

Great powder, particularly for light to moderate loads IME. I wager you’ll get a good one.

Thanks! looking forward to trying out a new powder.

WST is one of the go to powders for 45acp usually gives a milder recoil impulse than some others. You should be able to find an accurate load using it.
I use it for my main load in my 1911 typically 4.4 grains and it shoots well for me using 230gr fmj bullet.

I have some more accurate loads in 45acp, but they are all 200gr bullets. One of them is a SWC bullets, which is very accurate, but does not feed that well in a P220. the other is a 200gr Berrys RS bullet. Mythinking is that the FMJ should be able to group better than the plated 200gr bullet. Currenly I have 6 loads, maybe I should increase it to 8 loads and include 4.4gr. Decisions, decisions.

 

[Charlie98]

Many years ago a friend of mine turned me on to WST for the .45ACP. I was using it for my 12ga AA trap load, where it did very well, he said 'try it, you'll like it!' I did, and I did.

Initially, I loaded it under 230grn bullets... I didn't care for it as much there, you have to redline the load to get factory velocities (which was what I was looking for) although it was very clean and accurate. So I parked WST and continued on with Unique.

Recently, I started loading 200grn bullets, and I thought I would do it up right... try all the new powders! I used WST as the control powder, and went through 4 other powders... none were as accurate as WST, even if it didn't match the velocity others were giving. Further, WST is known to be reverse temperature sensitive... that is to say, it gets slower the hotter it gets, which may explain my velocity differences, I was testing in 110F temperatures.

 

[murf]

have you tried a 1.240" c.o.l.? varying the length can sometimes improve accuracy for all loads.

luck,

murf

 

[Cannibul]

WST and 200 gr SWC bullets go together like peanut butter and jelly.

I never much liked it for 230 bullets. You're at max load to get mil-spec velocities and WST, like most fast powders, can get really spiky at the top end.

Also be aware that WST is reverse temperature sensitive. It will produce lower velocities in hot weather. Something that really becomes apparent when the load developed and tested at 40 fails to function at 95.

 

[Blue68f100]

WST is all that In use in my 45acp 185gr, and 200gr LSWC. I using reduced loads below starting min of 4.4gr. Just work backwards on your load workup till you start getting malfunction on feeding then step up 0.1 gr. Like said it's reverse temp sensitive powder. I use WSF for my heavier loads. WST burns ultra clean at reduced loads. My 1911 is a SS with polished sided. I can shoot 100 rounds and the gun is cleaner than 1 mag of BE. And it's being a ball powder it meters well in most all dispensers.

 

[Crazy Horse]

I love WST for 45acp. I tested it with multiple loads between 4.3-4.5 and settled on 4.5gr.

I typically used 230gr bullets at a COAL of 1.250. Looking at Hodgon, it shows that you can go between 4.3 to 4.9 of WST. In my experience, 4.3 has the minimal amount of recoil, but I liked how 4.5 feld in terms of recoil and accuracy. Additionally, I also load 185gr XTP bullets with 4.5gr of WST and they shoot well out of my Shield45 2.0.

I have other powders, but for 45acp, I have only been using WST as it give me good accuracy and reliability, plus the cases are really clean. YMMV

I'm looking foward to the results on how WST performs in accuracy and recoil at the higher levels (>4.5 grains of powder).

The only downside is that while the powder meters well, it clings to everything. But the positives greatly outweigh the one negative.

CH

 

[Ruger 15151]

I have seen some of your targets so I know you have some accurate 45 ACP loads.

If you are looking for another high end load with the quick burn rate required for 45 ACP, try Vihtavuori N310. Expensive. But an amazingly consistent powder.

 

[Crazy Horse]

I have seen some of your targets so I know you have some accurate 45 ACP loads.

If you are looking for another high end load with the quick burn rate required for 45 ACP, try Vihtavuori N310. Expensive. But an amazingly consistent powder.

Ruger15151,

Thanks for the compliment. It is much appreciated. It's nice to know that even though my wife doesn't know or appreciate my hobby, especially when I show pictures and try to show the differences...... (yawn...), it at least it gets some recognition in this venue.

I've heard nothing but great things from Vihtavuori powders. I did look them up once but as you stated, Expensive..... In this time of shortages, one takes what they can find, I just got some HS-6 and Unique,

i'll put Vihtavuori on my list once I'm done with those to test. Of course, I'll be looking at a one pound jug. BTW, Vihtavuori is a village in Finland. Is the powder made in Finland?

As I progress, I tend to stick to certain powders for calibers as I'm sure most do. Right now, I'm settled on Power Pistol for 9mm and WST for 45acp. That's not a bad thing as WST has been more readily avaialbe (odd). I was using CFE for both about a year ago, but I have switched as time has progressed and CFE is not available at Academy right now or for the foreseeable future.

I do however love testing powders out for in alternatives lean times such as now.

THX

CH

 

[rabid wombat]

I have only shot Bullseye and WST in 45’s (started with 185, and moved to 200’s). The only reason I moved to WST, I am now using a progressive (vs the Lee Whack a mole I learned on, or the RCBS single stage that was a huge step up). WST gave a case fill that helped eliminate potential double charges (more visible for me than a double charge of Bullseye in the progressive). Meters well. Good powder for the caliber.

 

[rabid wombat]

From a couple of my previous posts

““...but WST has worked well for me. I use the following, which is similar to yours:

200 grain lead flat point bullet by Roger (BetterBullets) ADDED - I load Roger’s coated, too
5.1 grains WST
Winchester Large Primers
COL = 1.220
mixed brass

This is giving me an average of ~900 fps, and about a 180 for the PF. Been shooting it for years in 1911’s and 625’s

Standard cautions on sharing load data. YMMV,

“The following is the results of the reloads using WST (loads above). I use the data as a "poor man's" quality check. Please understand the SD on the speed (FPS) is goofy. This is a number of strings over a variety of days, conditions, distances, and etc. The number does not reflect the quality, and it is mathematically meaningless.

Throw COL FPS
AVG 5.1 1.223 900.3
SD 0.059 0.005 60.2
Count. 136 278 108
Min. 5.0 1.200 781.7
Max 5.2 1.235 1180.3

Looking at an individual lot / string is much better (27 rounds fired):

hi = 904.9
lo = 812.8
SD = 20.9
CV = 2.40%
MAD = 14.5
CV = 1.66%
ES = 92.1
AVG = 871.4”

 

[Crazy Horse]

I have only shot Bullseye and WST in 45’s (started with 185, and moved to 200’s). The only reason I moved to WST, I am now using a progressive (vs the Lee Whack a mole I learned on, or the RCBS single stage that was a huge step up). WST gave a case fill that helped eliminate potential double charges (more visible for me than a double charge of Bullseye in the progressive). Meters well. Good powder for the caliber.

I started with Bullseye way back when. Love the powder, but man it's dirty. Didn't realize how dirty it was until I used WST. I still have about 1/2 a can of it and like keeping it around because I can use it on all the calibers I have, it is one of the oldest, but by far not one of the cleanest.

 

[vaalpens]

Many years ago a friend of mine turned me on to WST for the .45ACP. I was using it for my 12ga AA trap load, where it did very well, he said 'try it, you'll like it!' I did, and I did.

Initially, I loaded it under 230grn bullets... I didn't care for it as much there, you have to redline the load to get factory velocities (which was what I was looking for) although it was very clean and accurate. So I parked WST and continued on with Unique.

Recently, I started loading 200grn bullets, and I thought I would do it up right... try all the new powders! I used WST as the control powder, and went through 4 other powders... none were as accurate as WST, even if it didn't match the velocity others were giving. Further, WST is known to be reverse temperature sensitive... that is to say, it gets slower the hotter it gets, which may explain my velocity differences, I was testing in 110F temperatures.

Thanks for the comments. I am not looking for velocity, purely grouping. I have a few good powders when I'm am looking for velocity.

 

[vaalpens]

have you tried a 1.240" c.o.l.? varying the length can sometimes improve accuracy for all loads.

luck,

murf

Thanks murf. What is the reasoning behind a lower COL. Won't it just give you a bit more pressure? Maybe it is something I will try if I am still looking for that very good grouping. I was even thinking of trying some magnum primers.

 

[vaalpens]

WST and 200 gr SWC bullets go together like peanut butter and jelly.

I never much liked it for 230 bullets. You're at max load to get mil-spec velocities and WST, like most fast powders, can get really spiky at the top end.

Also be aware that WST is reverse temperature sensitive. It will produce lower velocities in hot weather. Something that really becomes apparent when the load developed and tested at 40 fails to function at 95.

I have some loads with very accurate 200gr SWC bullets. The problem is that the P220 is not that reliable with the SWC bullets. I think I got it to where it was feeding reliable, but I was not totally comfortable with the SWC reliability.

 

[vaalpens]

WST is all that In use in my 45acp 185gr, and 200gr LSWC. I using reduced loads below starting min of 4.4gr. Just work backwards on your load workup till you start getting malfunction on feeding then step up 0.1 gr. Like said it's reverse temp sensitive powder. I use WSF for my heavier loads. WST burns ultra clean at reduced loads. My 1911 is a SS with polished sided. I can shoot 100 rounds and the gun is cleaner than 1 mag of BE. And it's being a ball powder it meters well in most all dispensers.

Thanks for the comments. For now I am staying away from SWC's due to reliability, but I also think that the 185gr/200gr bullets are more accurate. One of these days I will work up some loads with jacketed 185gr or 200gr bullets.

 

[Charlie98]

I have some loads with very accurate 200gr SWC bullets. The problem is that the P220 is not that reliable with the SWC bullets. I think I got it to where it was feeding reliable, but I was not totally comfortable with the SWC reliability.

I had 500 plated SWC's... they may have been Berrys, I don't remember. One of my Kimbers liked them, the other had feeding issues, and my Kahr would feed them not at all. Soooo... I'll just stick with RN bullets.

 

[vaalpens]

I love WST for 45acp. I tested it with multiple loads between 4.3-4.5 and settled on 4.5gr.

I typically used 230gr bullets at a COAL of 1.250. Looking at Hodgon, it shows that you can go between 4.3 to 4.9 of WST. In my experience, 4.3 has the minimal amount of recoil, but I liked how 4.5 feld in terms of recoil and accuracy. Additionally, I also load 185gr XTP bullets with 4.5gr of WST and they shoot well out of my Shield45 2.0.

I have other powders, but for 45acp, I have only been using WST as it give me good accuracy and reliability, plus the cases are really clean. YMMV

I'm looking foward to the results on how WST performs in accuracy and recoil at the higher levels (>4.5 grains of powder).

The only downside is that while the powder meters well, it clings to everything. But the positives greatly outweigh the one negative.

CH

Thanks for the comments Crazy Horse. I will definitely post all my results. This is a new powder for me, so I am definitely interested in how it meters, and how it works in 45acp. A lot of reloaders use WST, not just for 45acp, so I am definitely looking forward to the results in 45acp, and maybe some other cartridges.

 

[vaalpens]

Ruger15151,

Thanks for the compliment. It is much appreciated. It's nice to know that even though my wife doesn't know or appreciate my hobby, especially when I show pictures and try to show the differences...... (yawn...), it at least it gets some recognition in this venue.

I've heard nothing but great things from Vihtavuori powders. I did look them up once but as you stated, Expensive..... In this time of shortages, one takes what they can find, I just got some HS-6 and Unique,

i'll put Vihtavuori on my list once I'm done with those to test. Of course, I'll be looking at a one pound jug. BTW, Vihtavuori is a village in Finland. Is the powder made in Finland?

As I progress, I tend to stick to certain powders for calibers as I'm sure most do. Right now, I'm settled on Power Pistol for 9mm and WST for 45acp. That's not a bad thing as WST has been more readily avaialbe (odd). I was using CFE for both about a year ago, but I have switched as time has progressed and CFE is not available at Academy right now or for the foreseeable future.

I do however love testing powders out for in alternatives lean times such as now.

THX

CH

Thanks for the comments. I am definitely going to try Vihtavuori in 45acp at some time. It seems that Vihtavuori and 185gr jacketed 45acp bullets, could just be the most accurate. One of these days i will splurge a little bit and chase that small grouping.

 

[vaalpens]

I have only shot Bullseye and WST in 45’s (started with 185, and moved to 200’s). The only reason I moved to WST, I am now using a progressive (vs the Lee Whack a mole I learned on, or the RCBS single stage that was a huge step up). WST gave a case fill that helped eliminate potential double charges (more visible for me than a double charge of Bullseye in the progressive). Meters well. Good powder for the caliber.

Thanks for the comments. I did not realize that WST will fill the case. based on my calculation it seem that I will be using around .5cc, which is not bad.

 

[murf]

Won't it just give you a bit more pressure?

yes. it may get the powder to burn better with the increased pressure. i have noticed changes in accuracy by adjusting c.o.l..

murf

 

[LiveLife]

What is the reasoning behind a lower COL. Won't it just give you a bit more pressure? Maybe it is something I will try if I am still looking for that very good grouping

it may get the powder to burn better with the increased pressure. i have noticed changes in accuracy by adjusting c.o.l.

Seating bullet deeper where case wall is thicker increases neck tension which can improve powder burn efficiency (Especially if you are using lighter powder charges for target load) and/or low pressure larger volume case like 45ACP.

When I conduct load development, I will do power work up with longest working OAL to identify the powder charge that produces smallest groups. Then (If I am not at max charge) I will incrementally decrease the OAL (by .005") to see if accuracy improves. If accuracy improves, I will use shorter OAL. If my OAL reduction is significant, I may consider powder charge reduction while watching accuracy trend.

 

[lordpaxman]

The way I test my reloads is to use a cheap rest, with a cheap scope at 15 yards. With all the cartridges I have tested with this testing method, the best I could do with 230gr FMJ RN bullets is a #18 ranking. With all the powders I have tried, following are the best rankings I have seen with a 230gr FMJ RN bullet:

I’d be interested to know what a “#18” ranking is?

I worked up a 230gr RN Rainier plated With 4.4gr of WST at 1.230” and it just makes major in a P220 Elite. WST is one of my favorite .45 target load powders, good precision, good metering and fairly clean. It works well in .40 too.
At the time I was also shooting HAPs and MGs JHP with WST.

If you’re looking at faster powders, Clays is another good contender, IMR Red and Target, and of course Titegroup. I’ve yet to try N310 but it’s on the list for the next order whenever that happens. Good luck!