45acp Taper crimp die for 45 (Long) Colt with jacketed bullets OK?

[call1911]

Hi everybody!
I couldn't find anything in regards to my question but I know sometimes it depends what/how you search to find a good answer.
So if I missed this, please just forgive my stupid question and point me to the corresponding thread here.

The facts:
I have a RCBS carbide 3-die set for 45acp (with taper crimp/seating die) which I'm happy with. It does what is intended to do for all my 1911s.

Pretty new is a RCBS carbide 3-die set (Part # 19112) for my wifes lever action.
This one's got a roll crimp/seating die.
Until now I only used 250-255gn lead bullets with a crimp-groove so the roll-cromp-die fits perfectly.
Now I wanted to try some 185gn and 200gn jacketed hollow points in the lever action.

So here's my question:
Can I use the taper-crimp die from the 45acp set for the jacketed bullets with 45 Long Colt brass?
Is this: perfectly OK / wise / not so smart / total B.S. / .... ?

(I found some taper crimp dies (from Lyman or Hornady) for 45LC but they have to be ordered and would take some weeks or even months to arrive here in Europe.
So I thought that maybe my 45acp tape crimp would do the job)

Hope you can help!
Thanks a lot in advance

 

[Kp321]

A taper crimp probably would not provide enough neck tension for 45 Colt either in a lever action or revolver. Both require a good roll crimp into a crimping groove or cannelure on the bullet.

 

[PWC]

With constant pressure from from the follower spring preloading the cartridge, then the recoil impulse from the fired round, I think the ability of the taper crimp to hold the bullet in place becomes questionable, especially with heavy loads.

 

[call1911]

Thanks for your answers.
I bought these here (see below) and they definitely have no crimp groove
and worked fine in a 1894 lever rifle. No bullet setback or other problems.

https://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/pr...on/pistol-and-revolver-cartridges/detail/301/

 

[forty_caliber]

My .45Colt dies (Hornady) have a taper crimp die. Rounds seem to work fine either my revolvers or lever.

.40

 

[call1911]

Maybe I was unclear.
I hoped to be able to save the money on an extra taper crimp die for 45LC if someone told me it was ok to use the one I already have for 45acp.

 

[Walkalong]

It will work, adjust it for a pretty firm crimp, but not enough you decrease the diameter of the bullet near the base. Lee sells a roll crimp die for about $13 though.

 

[Cump]

I made it work too, for a while, with light loads (plated bullets) and also some heavy loads in a rifle (XTP with cannelure). I didn't run the heavies in a revolver so can't say for sure they would never have jumped the crimp.

 

[AJC1]

It will function as a taper crimp yes. You may have to screw the die way out to get it to work with the much longer case. Are you shooting 45 acp bullets which dont have a cannalure because there designed for taper crimp, again I believe yes. Will you get enough neck tension to prevent setback, maybe. Testing your load is the only way to know for sure. Lighter bullets normally mean more powder and more recoil. Be careful.

 

[243winxb]

The acp die may size the colt before case mouth reaches the crimp section.

My RCBS ACP die removed the case flare to early loading ACP.

All depends on the dies inside diameter. The acp is about .006" smaller then colt. (SAAMI)

 

[Walkalong]

I use a .45 ACP seater with no seater stem to taper crimp plated bullets in .45 Colt for light loads. I use a Redding Profile Crimp die to roll crimp lead or coated lead in .45 Colt.

 

[AJC1]

The acp die may size the colt before case mouth reaches the crimp section.

My RCBS ACP die removed the case flare to early loading ACP.

All depends on the dies inside diameter. The acp is about .006" smaller then colt. (SAAMI)

Are you going from .451 to .457 because I see sizes all over the map in 45 cal. Because of the taper in the die I am convinced it should work, as things vary in all loads from brass thicknesses to bullet diameter. Stacking extreme tolerances may work for or against you. The obvious answer is use the right tool but I would try it and see.

 

[243winxb]

I would try it and see

I agree. Try it.

 

[whughett]

I didn’t have much success with taper crimping 200 grain 452 SWC bullets in 45 Colt cases for use in my conversion cylinders. Was trying to use a bullet designed for 45ACP. Bullet set back wasn’t a problem erratic ignition and unburned Powder was. With those large cases and smallish powder loads I concluded the primer was moving the bullet before the powder could reach full pressure.
Switching to a 200 grain RNFP bullet with a crimping groove solved the problem. Switching to Trail Boss powder ended all the problems associated with large case and small powder charges.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Heavy recoil guns beg for roll-crimp ammo.

 

[Pivot Dr]

Hi everybody!
I couldn't find anything in regards to my question but I know sometimes it depends what/how you search to find a good answer.
So if I missed this, please just forgive my stupid question and point me to the corresponding thread here.

The facts:
I have a RCBS carbide 3-die set for 45acp (with taper crimp/seating die) which I'm happy with. It does what is intended to do for all my 1911s.

Pretty new is a RCBS carbide 3-die set (Part # 19112) for my wifes lever action.
This one's got a roll crimp/seating die.
Until now I only used 250-255gn lead bullets with a crimp-groove so the roll-cromp-die fits perfectly.
Now I wanted to try some 185gn and 200gn jacketed hollow points in the lever action.

So here's my question:
Can I use the taper-crimp die from the 45acp set for the jacketed bullets with 45 Long Colt brass?
Is this: perfectly OK / wise / not so smart / total B.S. / .... ?

(I found some taper crimp dies (from Lyman or Hornady) for 45LC but they have to be ordered and would take some weeks or even months to arrive here in Europe.
So I thought that maybe my 45acp tape crimp would do the job)

Hope you can help!
Thanks a lot in advance

Hi everybody!
I couldn't find anything in regards to my question but I know sometimes it depends what/how you search to find a good answer.
So if I missed this, please just forgive my stupid question and point me to the corresponding thread here.

The facts:
I have a RCBS carbide 3-die set for 45acp (with taper crimp/seating die) which I'm happy with. It does what is intended to do for all my 1911s.

Pretty new is a RCBS carbide 3-die set (Part # 19112) for my wifes lever action.
This one's got a roll crimp/seating die.
Until now I only used 250-255gn lead bullets with a crimp-groove so the roll-cromp-die fits perfectly.
Now I wanted to try some 185gn and 200gn jacketed hollow points in the lever action.

So here's my question:
Can I use the taper-crimp die from the 45acp set for the jacketed bullets with 45 Long Colt brass?
Is this: perfectly OK / wise / not so smart / total B.S. / .... ?

(I found some taper crimp dies (from Lyman or Hornady) for 45LC but they have to be ordered and would take some weeks or even months to arrive here in Europe.
So I thought that maybe my 45acp tape crimp would do the job)

Hope you can help!
Thanks a lot in advance

What kind of 45 Colt dies do you have? Typically 45 Colt, aka 45 Long Colt, die sets have seating dies that are also heavy roll crimp dies. Normally you will roll crimp into a cannular but you can load 45 ACP bullets in the 45 Colt and just go ahead and roll crimp the case into the bullet. You shouldn’t really need another die.

 

[TTv2]

I didn’t have much success with taper crimping 200 grain 452 SWC bullets in 45 Colt cases for use in my conversion cylinders. Was trying to use a bullet designed for 45ACP. Bullet set back wasn’t a problem erratic ignition and unburned Powder was. With those large cases and smallish powder loads I concluded the primer was moving the bullet before the powder could reach full pressure.
Switching to a 200 grain RNFP bullet with a crimping groove solved the problem. Switching to Trail Boss powder ended all the problems associated with large case and small powder charges.

Trail Boss is a miracle powder. So long as people use a magnum primer with it and a firm crimp, it'll work fine and be a lot easier to work with and safer than the old way of light powder charges and a prayer.

 

[TTv2]

I've been wondering this myself as after everything blows over with the virus to start getting into reloading Berry's .45 ACP bullets in .45 Schofield and Colt cases and using a taper crimp. I do believe that if the bullets lack a crimp groove and were meant for autoloaders, use the same crimp style an auto does, just make it very firm.

I just tried some of my .327 handloads using the Berry's .32 ACP bullet in my Henry and I didn't notice any issues with the bullets setting back under pressure from the spring. If people think a spring gently pushing against the bullet is going to cause setback, pull out any factory 9mm or .45 ACP ammo and using only your hands try as hard as you can to force that bullet deeper into the case.

It's not gonna move.

 

[Toprudder]

Lee makes a collet style crimp die for 45 Colt. These can actually form a cannelure into the bullet when used. I don't know how it may affect the accuracy, though, having deformed the bullet jacket.

https://leeprecision.com/45-colt-custom-carbide-factory-crimp-die.html

 

[call1911]

It will work, adjust it for a pretty firm crimp, but not enough you decrease the diameter of the bullet near the base. Lee sells a roll crimp die for about $13 though.

Sorry that doesn't help.
I asked if the 45acp's Taper crimp die could would work. I already have a roll crimp die in my 45LC 3-die set.

 

[call1911]

I made it work too, for a while, with light loads (plated bullets) and also some heavy loads in a rifle (XTP with cannelure). I didn't run the heavies in a revolver so can't say for sure they would never have jumped the crimp.

I only tried it with Speer 185gn hollow point which have no cannelure.
And at my place I couldn't find any jacket 45 bullets with a cannalure.
But I'll ask my local dealer if he could order them for me.

 

[call1911]

Are you going from .451 to .457 because I see sizes all over the map in 45 cal. Because of the taper in the die I am convinced it should work, as things vary in all loads from brass thicknesses to bullet diameter. Stacking extreme tolerances may work for or against you. The obvious answer is use the right tool but I would try it and see.

You are right - I tried it and..... failed.
I own a forster Co-Ax and I removed the seating stem from the 45acp taper-crimp/seating die.
Then I completly removed the die body out of the lock-ring.
Now I put the 45LC case up by pulling the handle to set the die body/crimp.
But as soon as I inserted the body in the lock-ring (the very first thread) the die body contacted the shell/case and would havestarted to crimp.
With the die-body only barely inside the lock-ring that's not how I like to put a crimp on any substantial piece of brass.

Maybe this wouldn't happen with another press, but that's the one I have
So for the moment I'll stop there and won't load any more jacketed bullets for 45 Long Colt. I'll order a Taper-Crimp die which will probably take 6+ months to get here.
I didn't mention that the only reason why I started this "project" was because I couldn't make 250gn LRNFP bullets make it out to 100m.
They hit dead center at 50m but somewhere between 50 an 100 it just drops down like a cow in midair.
My hopes were high to achieve it with jacketed bullets (higher speed) but it can wait.

So thanks everybody for the great help!!!!

 

[call1911]

Lee makes a collet style crimp die for 45 Colt. These can actually form a cannelure into the bullet when used. I don't know how it may affect the accuracy, though, having deformed the bullet jacket.

https://leeprecision.com/45-colt-custom-carbide-factory-crimp-die.html

Not helping with my problem question.
If I wanted to "make" a cannelure in the jeacket bullet I could just use the roll-crimp die from the 45LC die-set.
But as I wrote before - I stopped the project for now for several reasons. (see above)

 

[gotboostvr]

I'd whip up a batch of 10 and try it.

 

[243winxb]

I couldn't make 250gn LRNFP bullets make it out to 100m.
They hit dead center at 50m but somewhere between 50 an 100 it just drops down like a cow in midair.
My hopes were high to achieve it with jacketed bullets (higher speed)

Higher velocity load data is available for lead bullets. Buy your rifle needs to be able to handle the high pressure.

Load data- https://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/