45acp what's favorite bullseye or win 231?

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Pistoltwo

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Hello all, I just got 300 hornady 185gr xtp bullets and was in the planning phase. I could sure use some opinions. I'm loading for a 1911 built from different parts. I got it functioning like a dream shooting 230gr jacketed round nose and SWC. I would like to develop a hot xtp round without changing my 14lb spring and run several rds through before I cerakote the gun. I have win 231 and bullseye both on hand.
Thanks for any information and or opinions,
Justin
 
Both are very good, I prefer Bullseye for 200gr plated RN for pistol. When I could get Nosler's 185gr JHPs cheap I mostly used W-231 for those in a 1911.
 
Based an inquiries with the Bullseye Pistol shooters I know, Bullseye Pistol powder is still the number one in the sport. Pistol competitors find a good load and stick with it, so there are not a lot of early adopters, someone has to prove the latest Wunderpulver is as good as the advertising before the market moves.

If my web research is well remembered and correct, Bullseye pistol is the oldest gunpowder on the market, and it was used in the 1910 developmental cartridges that were used in the field testing that lead to the adoption of the 1911. The load was a 230 FMJ with 5.0 grs Bullseye for a speed of 800 fps.

don't know what Dupont used in their early ammunition, I am very sure Remington used whatever the lowest bidder provided.

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Bullseye powder was used in two World Wars, and has a great track record in the 45 ACP. It has been used forever, basically, as a target powder because the charges can be reduced without any ruination of accuracy. I found some of my Bullseye loads date back from 1950's American Rifleman magazines. Shot great then, still does. In my testing both the extreme spreads and standard deviations are outstanding in the 45 ACP with 200 gr and 230 bullets. Consistent velocities are good, because that means the pressure variations are also tight, and that leads to better pistol function.

Ernest is in his 70's, is a still active Bullseye Competitor, and these are some of his bragging targets.

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Let me tell you, I am still working on keeping all my 45 ACP shots on the repair center at 50 yards, never mind keeping the all in the black! Of course the real internet experts can shoot as well as Ernest with their eyes closed, but I never see these guys on the firing line.

When Bullseye pistol powder got hard to find, a number of competitors moved to Titegroup. That powder is also a fast powder and shoots well. Every so often someone is using 700 X powder.

I asked the All Guard team captain about the Zero 185 gr JHP ammunition the All Guard team was using. He had contracted with Zero Bullets for loads that were supposed to go 800-810 fps, but in actuality, were running about 790 fps. His accuracy criteria was 1.5 inch ten shot groups at 50 yards from two of the three match 1911 pistols he sent them for lot acceptance testing. The bullets used, are Zero 185 gr JHP's. The powder choice is Zero's and I have no idea what firewater they pour into the case.

That type of bullet is the most common JHP on the firing line, it has a light recoil and is very accurate. I believe were you to duplicate these velocities you would have to use a lighter recoil spring, maybe 12 lbs to 14lbs, or you would have failures to function.

I used kegs of W231 with a 230 grain lead and FMJ's and it is an outstanding powder, but I don't know how well it does at the powder puff loads used in target practice.

I am still shooting 200 grain bullets, so I think if you copied Ernest's load, bumped it up a tenth or two tenth, with a JHP, you would have an accurate load.
 
Wow thx for the history! And nice targets. Thanks for the posts. I'm going to change out my powder from 231 and go to bullseye for my starting load. Fortunately I can reload a few rounds and step out the door and shoot through my chrono, then adjust powder charge and try a few more. Originally I was thinking of trying for close to 900fps, however after reading your post I think the more experienced guys are getting better very accurate results well below max velocities. Thx agian, Justin
 
Both are well known for making good 45 ACP ammo with Bullseye being much older of course.

I really like W231 in the 45 Auto. I load any 230gr bullet over 5.5gr W231 and I'm never disappointed. (not that Bullseye is bad)

For that 185gr XTP bullet I would charge 5.8gr to 6.0gr W231 with an OAL of 1.225".

This is only what I would do, I'm not telling you to do the same. You will have to decide for yourself.
 
I will shoot 10rds of W231, it's what is in my dillion 550 now all set for the 230 fmj I loaded. Try them out and then try the bullseye, I doubt I will be able to tell the difference. But hey Im loving this reloading, never shot so much....
 
If you're looking for 900 fps like said in your above post I hope you have a chrono because the book numbers are never correct and your actual velocity is usually much lower.

If you're going to compare powder loads try to be sure the velocities are the same so you can evaluate them fairly.
 
For that 185gr XTP bullet I would charge 5.8gr to 6.0gr W231 with an OAL of 1.225".

Yes I have a chrono and I can load..... walk out the door and bang them though, love me some AZ,

I have noticed the chrono numbers don't always match load data? Always on the low side.
Not trying to kill my guns but hey factory loads are hot through my chrono.
 
I started out with WW231, and honestly haven't tried anything else. I'm a fledgling bullseye competitor, and have been trying for the softest shooting load I can get. I've been told that the "standard" WW231 load with 185 SWC's is 4.7 gr. My Dillon is currently throwing 4.6 gr. of HP38 (same thing as 231 but a couple of bucks cheaper) for both 185 and 200 SWC's. Once I use up my current batch of 185's I'm going to try 4.5 gr. with Missouri 185 buttons, which sit a little deeper in the case. I'm pretty sure it's going to function with better accuracy than I can hold.

Interestingly, my 200 gr. loads shoot a little bit faster than my 185's, 750 fps vs. 741 fps. Longer bullet with the same COL. Those were both 4.7 WW231 loads.
 
I had read somewhere the "classic" 45 ACP, 230 FMJ load was 5.0 gr Bullseye. I have used cast 230 RN bullets with the Bullseye for many, many rounds. I have other favorite loads most with Bullseye and Universal, mostly a HG 68 clone...
 
I’ve loaded 700-X with 230 gr RN bullets in 45 ACP for decades. I like it.

But, you cannot go wrong with Bullseye as Slamfire has said.

Bullseye is what the leaders in the sport are using, it must be the right combination.

(I really need to go back to using Bullseye in my 45 ACP. Maybe when all this stupidness subsides and components are available again).
 
I prefer 231 because I've found Bullseye to be dirtier than 231, especially with cast, traditionally lubed bullets.

It also doesn't hurt that I have 12lbs of 231 and have found good loads in .38spl, .40S&W (when I still had pistols in that caliber) and light "target' loads in .357 and .44mag.

Lot of reloaders say 231 is dirty also but I haven't seen that with my reloads which tend to run just above middle of the load data.
 
I use WST instead of BE since it burns cleaner. I've also used WSF, and W231 too. Since I load all of my handgun ammo on a AP, I prefer a powder that meters good. WST, WSF and W231 are ball powders and meter very well.
 
I prefer 231 because I've found Bullseye to be dirtier than 231, especially with cast, traditionally lubed bullets.

It also doesn't hurt that I have 12lbs of 231 and have found good loads in .38spl, .40S&W (when I still had pistols in that caliber) and light "target' loads in .357 and .44mag.

Lot of reloaders say 231 is dirty also but I haven't seen that with my reloads which tend to run just above middle of the load data.

I have used 231 for 38, 357, 9mm, 45ACP, and 44 mag for many years. I too feel it is cleaner burning than Bullseye but maybe it is just my perception. But I do find it to be very versatile for moderate loads in all of them. And fortunately I currently have about 5-6 lbs on hand.
 
Update if your interested,
I went with 5.8gr w231 and put 4 through the chrono.
794fps
805fps
797fps
784fps
AV-795
They seemed to be very accurate, while shooting through the chrono I hit the same spot in the drit hill @25yrs away. Definitely not on paper however. Also the recoil was very mild. I included a pic to show the burnt powder on the brass. It looks pretty clean to me.
So now I can't make up my mind if I should just be happy and go with it or try and get them up around 900fps.

The difference in energy would be 800fps = 263 foot pounds vs 900fps = 333 fp.

*I started out looking for a hard hitting fast 45acp to carry.

Side note..... After shooting chrono this morning walking the 30yrds back to my shop a gopher was pushing up dirt by the door so I racked in a mag with 230 fmj and blasted that bugger through the dirt. Haha he had been making a mess of the yard..... No worries no more.
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Sorry about the pic upload couldn't get the upload right on my phone
 
I have settled on HP38/w231 as my 45acp 230gr HP silencer load.

If your load is near single digit SD, seems accurate, keep it as is. That's very close to my HP38 load for 230gr plated HP.

My 45acp 230gr FMJ/ball with WST. That load is super accurate, surprisingly quiet, gives single digit SD but only did like 700fps. Not fast enough to open up a hollow point, fine for ball ammo. So I upped the powder charge for use with hollow points and things went south quick. I was getting like 50 to 70fps SD and bullets were going all over the place.
 
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