45acp xtreme 200gr swc bullseye feed issue

[Erief0g]

I'm going to play around some more with these pills. Bought a long time ago and never loaded them up. Finally out of my Missouri 185 hitek button bullets.
Loaded to 1.235 oal which has about a fingernail above the shoulder. Note there is a decent size radius on the shoulder so there may be more room to shorten then up
Loaded up four dummy's and fed them through the sig sauer max 1911, all good.
4.7 grain bullseye which I plan to back down some as the power isn't needed.

Issue: using the sig supplied 8 round Wilson combat mags. If I put more than five in they fail to feed. Kind of bind up on the brass on the transition from feed ramp to battery.
Only put five in, no issues.

I've read about different mags and changes in magazines feed lips allowing more diverse profiles to feed but never ran into this personally.

Any thoughts to if the mag is more the issue vs the cartridge? The load is hotter than required and I'l back it down some and also try and shorten it up some to see if oal helps. Just brainstorming here.

Don't plan on getting anymore of these as even though they are swc they tear up the paper targets much more than the Missouri bullet profile.

Thanks for any thoughts and wisdom.

 

[drband]

I think you need a stronger spring in your magazine or perhaps a different magazine. Maybe a magazine with “hybrid” feed lips if a stronger spring does not remedy the WC mags?

 

[Slamfire]

I regularly shoot the things in my Les Baer Wadcutter. I load them out to 1.250" and am currently using 4.2 grs Bullseye as my bottom end load. They feed and extract fine. I have no idea why they are not working in your pistol, try different magazines.

 

[Erief0g]

Yea, I'm leaning on magazines being the easiest culprit.

Thinking of ordering three of the mecgar stainless 8 round mags

 

[DIV03]

Never had any luck loading the plated Extreme 200 grain wad cutters. Nothing but FTR, sold them to a friend and went back to Bulletworks LSWC 200 grain.

 

[slickracer]

The nose is too short on those bullets. A normal 200 SWC will be about 1.260" with the shoulder a thumbnail out of the case. Save the money on magazines and get some correctly made bullets.

 

[Erief0g]

The nose is too short on those bullets. A normal 200 SWC will be about 1.260" with the shoulder a thumbnail out of the case. Save the money on magazines and get some correctly made bullets.

For reference the shorter red Missouri bullet runs great and the longer xtreme bullet does not.

 

[Erief0g]

So started digging through my unloaded bullet ammo cans. Same place I found the aforementioned xtreme 200gr plated swc bullets.

Found a can that I thought was all 44mag and upon pulling out all the bags I've got two more bullets to test out. Heck yea!

 

[Erief0g]

In returning to the xtremes.
I took some of the dummy rounds and dropped them to 1.210 oal which is right at min length before the shoulder starts getting at the case.

Loaded the mag with four factory rounds to take up space and topped with the dummy's. They did feed although manual cycling, to me, isn't always the best test.
Note in the picture the indentation in the brass from the cycling.
Also in doing this there is .010 set back measured after cycling.

 

[Walkalong]

Check-Mate Hybrid feed lip.

https://www.topgunsupply.com/check-...d-removable-base-full-size-1911-magazine.html

 

[etex rick]

I have shot 1000's of Xtreme 45-200 swc's over 4.8 gr Bullseye. OAL = 1.225. Shot thru my Sig 1911 Target. Never experienced an issue. Using both the Sig supplied mag's and Wilson Combat mag's

 

[Erief0g]

Check-Mate Hybrid feed lip.

https://www.topgunsupply.com/check-...d-removable-base-full-size-1911-magazine.html

Thanks. Good price when they are back in stock. Put myself on the email list

I have shot 1000's of Xtreme 45-200 swc's over 4.8 gr Bullseye. OAL = 1.225. Shot thru my Sig 1911 Target. Never experienced an issue. Using both the Sig supplied mag's and Wilson Combat mag's

I'm sure they can work. I'm leaning on magazine or magazine spring. The Wilson mags came with the firearm. They have been used extensively for the last five years

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Note in the picture the indentation in the brass from the cycling. Also in doing this there is .010 set back measured after cycling.

The bullet set back indicates that the bullet nose is impacting the barrel ramp instead of bouncing off it and up into the chamber. The result is a three point jam.

What happens is the barrel is being pushed forward by the bullet, and as it moves forward, it moves up, working to engage the barrel upper lugs with their mating lug recesses in the slide. If that happens too early, the lug corners crash...barrel front to slide rear...and it all comes to a halt.

If your jammed rounds have a smiley face mark about 1/8th inch below the case mouth which yours obviously do, there's your sign. If the frame ramp angle is out of spec, this usually happens, and you can polish it until you can see your face in it, and it won't help.

Forgive my lack of recall but I'd run some factory FMJ through the pistol to establish that it will, in fact, run with in-spec ammo. I'd examine those fired cases to see if they have "smiley faces". I'd especially look at the first round chambered cases for this clue. If it won't run with factory FMJ or if any of the fired factory cases have the smiley face, I'd ask the manufacturer to take a look at the pistol's internal geometry.

 

[Erief0g]

Thanks Steve.

Yes, it runs factory cci blazer with no issue. Ran 100 just this same trip.

Since you brought it up I checked the spent bread and there are no markings but I also feel the act of firing would remove the marks for the most part.

With that said I'll load up a live mag of blazer and manually cycle and revie*** upon review no issues. Only one had any setback at all which was .003 which is quite nominal.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Check-Mate Hybrid feed lip.https://www.topgunsupply.com/check-...d-removable-base-full-size-1911-magazine.html

I run only CMI hybrid feed lip mags and I have about 50 of them. Just to amplify Walkalong's suggestion check out this post: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-failure-to-feed-diagnosis.649461/#post-8036483

 

[Steve in Allentown]

. . . I also feel the act of firing would remove the marks for the most part.

Do those Blazer cartridges have aluminum cases?

With that said I'll load up a live mag of blazer and manually cycle and review

Just a suggestion for manually cycling the slide. Remove the recoil spring and push the slide forward using two thumbs on the back of the slide. Don't push too slowly or the cartridges may pop out of the mag in front of the extractor. Using this technique you can feel every bump and hesitation as the slide comes forward. I do it this way with every 1911 I work on as it allows me to identify and isolate specific mechanical problems. It's also a great way to compare the feeding characteristics of magazines from various manufacturers.

 

[Erief0g]

Do those Blazer cartridges have aluminum cases?

Negative, blazer brass

Just a suggestion for manually cycling the slide. Remove the recoil spring and push the slide forward using two thumbs on the back of the slide. Don't push too slowly or the cartridges may pop out of the mag in front of the extractor. Using this technique you can feel every bump and hesitation as the slide comes forward. I do it this way with every 1911 I work on as it allows me to identify and isolate specific mechanical problems. It's also a great way to compare the feeding characteristics of magazines from various manufacturers.
Interesting, I'll check it out!

Also, checkmate has a black Friday special and I got the five pack of 8 round hybrid stainless steel removable base mags for $78 shipped. Says they have a helluva lead time but that's fine to.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I just read through the thread to refresh my memory and based on the evidence presented I suggest you drop in an EGW Higher mag catch. I use them in all 1911s and have found they make feeding smoother and in a couple of instances have cured the kind of malfunction you're experiencing. No guarantees but it won't hurt anything.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I got the five pack of 8 round hybrid stainless steel removable base mags for $78 shipped.

My all time favorite full size 1911 mags. Not using the aluminum cased Blazers is good news. If you were getting smiley faces on the brass cases, you'd see them. They won't be smoothed out by case expansion.

 

[Erief0g]

Glad I asked the questions. Gaining more knowledge today for sure!

 

[Jim Watson]

I have not tried Xtreme plated SWCs, but Ranier would not feed reliably in any gun, magazine, or OAL I tried.
Several brands of cast SWC did fine.

 

[cfullgraf]

In the early 1980s, I fiddled with SWC bullets in my M1911's and could never get them to work reliably. I'll admit that I did not try very hard but if my memory serves me correctly, different style of magazine lips were not available at the time. I really was not willing to to work with the feed ramps at the time and 230 FMJ bullets were just fine for my purposes.

Recently, 2017 or 2018, I got a new production Colt Gold Cup. With the appropriate recoil spring installed, it cycles 185/200 grain SWC bullet loads without issue. Again, I have not done much to investigate why but I'd suspect the magazine lips on the magazines that came with the gun are a "hybrid" configuration that help with feeding the SWC bullets.

In any case, I'd try a magazine that is set up for SWC bullets as opposed to one that is configured for 230 FMJ bullets.

 

[Erief0g]

Also, checkmate has a black Friday special and I got the five pack of 8 round hybrid stainless steel removable base mags for $78 shipped. Says they have a helluva lead time but that's fine to.
View attachment 875254

Got the mags yesterday. Did a range trip with them.
In my opinion they are perhaps the best mag's I've ever used in a 1911. Thanks much for the info and links. Money very well spent

 

[LiveLife]

The bullet set back indicates that the bullet nose is impacting the barrel ramp instead of bouncing off it and up into the chamber.

This is significant and very good point.

Essentially, 200 gr SWC bullet nose profile is 230 gr RN with material removed from "contact point" of 230 gr RN. When loaded to OAL that places the tip of SWC at the same contact point of 230 gr RN, feeding/chamber should be reliable.

And depending on the brand of bullet, 200 gr SWC nose length and tip width are not the same so different OAL may be needed for different SWC bullets to feed/chamber reliably. (Of course, if you can't reliably feed/chamber 230 gr RN bullets, you have other issues that may not be SWC specific).


In this archived thread, OP was having issues reliably feeding reloads in his new ATI 1911 with factory magazine. After ruling out magazine as the problem, we wanted to verify reliability of feeding/chambering RN vs SWC bullets and I sent the OP an assortment of 200/230 gr RN/SWC bullets to test at different OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/45acp-1911-problems.832138/page-3

After determining max OAL with MBC SWC bullets (Lead and Hi-Tek), OP found shorter 1.230" caused feeding issues but "... once set to correct length ... SWC rounds went into battery without issue ... range test ... SWC ran flawless at 1.250"

 

[Erief0g]

Sounds reasonable to me.

I loaded up 900 230gr hardball for plinking so I've got some time to try a few different lengths.