'49 Pocket & H777

[Across The Pond]

Hi - thought you might be interested in my experimenting with H777 today...

The load is (I think ) 15gn/vol. Sorry to be vague, but I cut a 20 gn spout down and don't have any real BP to check weigh against!

Anyway, it fills the lil' .31 chambers enough to just seat the ball on top of the powder column with next to no compression, and the ball just below the cylinder face.
The target was shot from 15 yds, duellist (single handed, free hand behind the back) and while I know I won't win any bullseye comps with this sort of performance, from my experience so far with the '49, this is an acceptable group at 15 yds. Always happier with better though!

The best result of the session was the that I re-discovered the fun factor shooting this diminutive Colt. I even dispensed with the ear defenders (don't do this at home folks....) as the report is no more than an HV .22RF.

Regards, ATP

 

[mec]

I'd call that very decent shooting with a pocket model. I'd be happy with it anyway.
I've use fairly little h777 in the pocket models but what I seemed to be seeing was that with the small 31 charges- 12.5- 13 or so grains- It performed pretty much like goex 3f and pyrodex p. It was one of the rare instances that the goex actually outspead the pyrodex. Swiss 3f kicked the velocities up considerably.

 

[Manyirons]

Mike

Have ya ever used Swiss NULL B and Swiss 4F in these? Gives um some ZIP! (Hafta look up tha figures)

 

[mec]

We tried some off-brand 4f prime in a couple of revolvers. Our first indication that we had some not-very-good 4f. So, I don't know what righteous 4f would do but. Swiss 3f provided a definate boost.

50 Grain Ball 12.5 FFFG 720 fps
50 Grain Ball 12.5 Pyrodex P 682
50 Grain Ball 10 Hodgdon 777 650
50 Grain Ball 13.5 Swiss FFFg 814
60 Grain Bullet 12.5 Pyrodex P 668

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Good shooting. That little gun has some nice wood on there, too.

 

[ribbonstone]

Good shooting...stick with that load. Nothing is going to really get the .31 out of it's weight class, so may as well go for the accurate load. These little guns (at least in today's world) are for fun...the load you have will punch paper, hole a tin can, or drop a close range rabbit just fine.


My favorites are the 1849 and the two pocket .36's (Police and Navy). If it were 1865 and I had to rely on a cap and ball for defense, would certainly want a .44...but my only use if plinking, targe shooting, and the occasional small critter dumb enough to let me get close.

 

[Across The Pond]

Thanks for your comments..

Yes, I was pleased with that group.. and yes Dave M, the wood on the gun is well figured for a standard pair of grips. I will be taking off the standard varnish finish and applying a proper oil finish sometime. I am also tempted to age the blueing if I can get some BC plum brown.

I am really determined to get H777 to work as well as I can - and it looks like I am there with the .31 as this is the best I have seen at that range.

Now that the long evenings are here I can spend some time working loads on the .36!

Regds, ATP

 

[RON in PA]

Considering what the .31 cal 1849 was designed for (up close and personal) that accuracy is fine for 15 yards.

 

[sjohns]

If you're right handed, I would say that the two stringers to the left is the result of holding too long and you possibly snapped them as you saw the sight move.

I would suggest dry fire with caps to work on your trigger squeeze. That's a good group alone, but you can make it better. You could even use a little piece of rubber or foam to lessen the impact on the nipples. You could also either remove them for dry fire, or keep an extra cylinder without nipples to improve trigger control, wobble area and sight problems.

Draw a very small dot on your wall somewhere in black and use that for a target. Distance is irrelevant.

A Keep your wrist "locked"
B Concentrate on a clear front sight, fuzzy rear, fuzzy target.
C. Feel that trigger out for creep and breakaway. Do it very slowly.

The innards might need a little stoning/polishing.

Scott

 

[mec]

Thanks to Across the Ponds observations in ref: H777 over the past several months and my own experimentation, I may be getting the proper handle on using the stuff. Avoiding significantl compression does seem to be the key to keeping extreme spreads under control. Just as a guess, I selected a 15grain/equivalent messure and tried it in a Paterson the other day:

Paterson Without Lever
22 Grains/Vol. Pyrodex P Velocity Extreme Spread
.375 Ball ........................... 914 fps/..... 86 fps
Paterson With Loading Lever
22 Grains Goex FFFg..................... 879/.....37
22 Grains Ninety Year Old FFFg........943/.....75
15 Grains/Vol. H777....................... 912/.....72

 

[Across The Pond]

Further Evidence..

Mec, interesting that you posted the Paterson results.... Last thing I did on my last trip to the range (how I envy you guys that can shoot at home!) I used the spout that is intended for the .31 (about 15gn/vol) and charged the .36 - this seats the ball way too low (according to conventional wisdom) even with a wonder wad on top of the powder.

The resulting group however, was under 3 inches from 15yds and even allowing for my errors of marksmanship, I believe that this represented good performance. I will borrow my club's chronograph for my next trip and try to throw some more (scientifically derived) data into the pot.

Fun this, isn't it!

Regds, ATP

 

[Manyirons]

777 In Larger Amounts&Chambers=Less Variation?

MEC!

Have you noted that H777 in greater compression AND smaller chambers seems to increase tha amount of shot ta shot variation?

I first noted with tha .45s and tha 'smith recommended 3F/4F Swiss under tha 777, then later with tha .50s WITHOUT tha blackpowder booster.

Perhaps tha wider/thicker/shorter proportionally powder column helps?

Any ideas?

 

[mec]

conventional wisdom often falls victim to camels teeth epistemology. I have a 45colt/45 ACP convertible that is more accurate with the ACP cylinder- jump and all. I've done some comparisons of identical loads in 38 special and .357 cases finding less than 1/8" difference at 25 yards with the advantage going first to one and then to the other. We are dealing with circa 1" groups from the bench here.

 

[Manyirons]

Mike!

Just as i have looked at Oehler tapes in disbelief after shootin a tiny group from (A COURSE!) tha ransom rest cause tha tape reads some horrible shot ta shot variation and a COURSE it cant shoot that well with that kinda variation.

Pretty much figure, if it shoots, it shoots, if it dont, it dont and i's stopped worryin over it!

 

[mec]

That head group I shot with the leverless paterson the other day was with Pinnacle. Leaving the chronograph at home really helped. I decided that I wanted easy clean up and was mainly function firing the Paterson but nice surprises happen.

 

[Manyirons]

Yup! Jus' AMAZIN' sometimes aint it?