5.56/.223 prices

[jc77]

keep an eye on gunbot.com

 

[justice06rr]

$.40-.50 per round is what you'll be paying right now for factory brass ammo. Many places sell 1k lots for $399.

If you want to go a little cheaper, Tula 223 is about $.26/rd

 

[Hacker15E]

I'm a brass cased snob, but I recently nabbed a half case of Wolf Military Classic.

....

I think the folks at Tula & Ulyanovsk are starting to crank out some ammo

FWIW, the new Wolf WPA is made by Barnaul, not Tula or Uly.

 

[Hacker15E]

Yes, steel cased ammo tends to be rougher on the extractor and is dirtier so you need to clean your gun more often if you shoot steel stuff, plus you can't reload it. I only shoot steel case in my milsurp and Russian guns, because I know they can handle it the don't need as much cleaning as the other guns.

Here is some of that "not reloadable" Tula .223 reloaded:



The real issue with most Russian steel-case 223 (like Tula) is that it is inconsistent, both in projectile shape and weight, but charge weight. Those inconsistencies are going to cause inaccuracy that may or may not be acceptable, depending on what range it is being shot and what the shooter's desires are.

FWIW, with thousands and thousands of rounds of steel 223 shot (both factory and reloads), I have yet to need to replace an extractor.

 

[Warp]

RE: Brass case vs steel case.

I suggest reading this entire article. But realize that they left out a very serious variable when they made their 'conclusions'...the spent brass cases definitely have a value that should not be ignored.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

 

[boricua9mm]

I suggest reading this entire article. But realize that they left out a very serious variable when they made their 'conclusions'...the spent brass cases definitely have a value that should not be ignored.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

Andrew almost always does a top-notch, thorough job. In this case, my trepidation lies with the firing cadence. If Andy and crew are speedily dumping mags, then their end results will be quite a bit off from someone who fires the carbine inline with the specifications of the firearm.

I don't ever dump mags in quick order. Even when running drills, it's double taps with some break time between pairs. Heating a barrel to cook-off points, as specifically mentioned in the article, is the realm of Squad Automatic Weapons. Now, if I had such a firearm I wouldn't load it up with Wolf, but a semi-auto AR is another realm altogether.

Back in 2001 I pushed a Romanian SAR-3 to the point where the inside of the hand guards started scorching. Obviously well outside the operating envelope, plus the ill-effects you'd expect along with it.

Seems obvious to me that an AR firing Brass cased ammo at a reasonable cadence will have its barrel last well beyond 5k. Whether or not those same results would be proportionately extrapolated to a test with a more realistic firing schedule/cadence remains to be seen.

 

[Warp]

Andrew almost always does a top-notch, thorough job. In this case, my trepidation lies with the firing cadence. If Andy and crew are speedily dumping mags, then their end results will be quite a bit off from someone who fires the carbine inline with the specifications of the firearm.

I don't ever dump mags in quick order. Even when running drills, it's double taps with some break time between pairs. Heating a barrel to cook-off points, as specifically mentioned in the article, is the realm of Squad Automatic Weapons. Now, if I had such a firearm I wouldn't load it up with Wolf, but a semi-auto AR is another realm altogether.

Back in 2001 I pushed a Romanian SAR-3 to the point where the inside of the hand guards started scorching. Obviously well outside the operating envelope, plus the ill-effects you'd expect along with it.

Seems obvious to me that an AR firing Brass cased ammo at a reasonable cadence will have its barrel last well beyond 5k. Whether or not those same results would be proportionately extrapolated to a test with a more realistic firing schedule/cadence remains to be seen.

I don't get the impression that the rate of fire was the problem.

The problem was the piece of crap tulammo sucking.

Note how the Federal XM193 went 10,000 rounds without a single malfunction...while the tula carbine DNF'd because the ammo screwed it up so ridiculously bad too many times.

And it's not like this is the only source for tulammo problems. Lots of people have had problems, some pretty serious (terribly-stuck cases for example) with tulammo. If you shoot it, you are taking your chances.

Personally I picked up 300 of it under the Herters label (it's tula) from Cabela's for about $0.25 per round a little while ago (a few months ago maybe? I forget). And then another 60+ from Walmart (forget exactly). I fired all of it without any problems. So it's not like using tula automatically means you will regret it, especially if you only use so much of it. But the risk is certainly there.

 

[Rusty Luck]

Hacker, could you maybe PM me with more on your experience with reloading steel? You have peaked my curiosity.

 

[boricua9mm]

I don't get the impression that the rate of fire was the problem.

As far as a barrel being completely shot out after 5k rounds, I think the rate of fire is definitely a source of the problem. If you heat up a barrel to the point that it is cooking off chambered rounds without the user pulling the trigger, then that is the point in which accelerated throat wear occurs.

And it's not like this is the only source for tulammo problems. Lots of people have had problems, some pretty serious (terribly-stuck cases for example) with tulammo. If you shoot it, you are taking your chances.

On that I would completely agree. Wolf has a history of being dirty, inconsistent, and in some cases squib-prone. One of the biggest problems is accountability in the event of a failure. If your gun gets a double-charged round or a squib resulting in a catastrophic failure, who do you turn to? Will a company is Russia make any effort to remedy the situation? In my opinion, it's highly unlikely.

I still think the newer Wolf steel case loads are leaps and bounds ahead of where it was 10-15 years ago.

 

[Warp]

On that I would completely agree. Wolf has a history of being dirty, inconsistent, and in some cases squib-prone. One of the biggest problems is accountability in the event of a failure. If your gun gets a double-charged round or a squib resulting in a catastrophic failure, who do you turn to? Will a company is Russia make any effort to remedy the situation? In my opinion, it's highly unlikely.

I still think the newer Wolf steel case loads are leaps and bounds ahead of where it was 10-15 years ago.

This is more what I am referring to.

And Wolf is, it seems, significantly better than Tula. At least currently.

What does that say about Tula?