5.56 AK type?
- Thread starter ds92
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Shung
Member
well, I know for sure chinese AK in .223 , but I don't know if they are available in the US-
I went on gunbroker.com and found what I was looking for - An Olympic Arms K3B M4 Carbine, chambered in 5.56 (so I can also shoot 223 Rem in it), 16 inch barrel, under 7 lbs. And it has a written life-time warranty.
The first time I tried to buy one I did the bidding thing and before I knew it, the gun I was bidding on was at 1250.00 - I stopped bidding long before that. The next time I didn't fool around with bidding - I used the "Buy Now" option.
Here's the details:
I paid $900 for my AR, $20 for shipping, $25 to my smithy for the FFL transfer - $945 was the grand total I paid.
I mailed the US Postal Money Order on Friday (1/30/09), received the AR the next Thursday (2/5/09) - I thought "Pretty fast turn around time."
BTW, I looked at the ARs at my local gun shop, but didn't see anything I was attracted to - that was under $1000.00 (I did see one I kinda liked for $1045.00, but it was a flat top and I wanted a carry handle on the AR, like the M16 I used in the 82d back in the early 70's. I didn't want to have to add a carry handle, I wanted it "built-in".
I'm glad I used gunbroker, saved some $$$$.
Take Care
Hack
The first time I tried to buy one I did the bidding thing and before I knew it, the gun I was bidding on was at 1250.00 - I stopped bidding long before that. The next time I didn't fool around with bidding - I used the "Buy Now" option.
Here's the details:
I paid $900 for my AR, $20 for shipping, $25 to my smithy for the FFL transfer - $945 was the grand total I paid.
I mailed the US Postal Money Order on Friday (1/30/09), received the AR the next Thursday (2/5/09) - I thought "Pretty fast turn around time."
BTW, I looked at the ARs at my local gun shop, but didn't see anything I was attracted to - that was under $1000.00 (I did see one I kinda liked for $1045.00, but it was a flat top and I wanted a carry handle on the AR, like the M16 I used in the 82d back in the early 70's. I didn't want to have to add a carry handle, I wanted it "built-in".
I'm glad I used gunbroker, saved some $$$$.
Take Care
Hack
Sir Aardvark
Member
Valmet makes one of these - good quality, but you end up paying for it.
stratus
Member
+1. Get a real AK. Why mess with one of the most reliable autoloading mag-fed rifles ever designed? If you want more accuracy get something else. I personally don't like the .223 because it does not penetrate cover. If you have a round that penetrates cover, then you can coax a target out of concealment even if you (probably) are going to miss. When they pop out you pop them. You simply can't do that with a .223 if they have real cover. Remember the difference between cover and concealment and the fact that the .223 is sensitive to tumble.the dude who is Hoppy said:
WardenWolf
member
Saiga .223. Cheap enough. Buy a US-made trigger group and spend a few hours converting it, and you've got your AK. They take a very slightly modified standard AK trigger group that's available pre-modified from a couple of sources. Reliable mags are readily available from Surefire.
With 3 different mags (factory, and 2 Surefires), I've put countless rounds through my Saiga .223 without a single malfunction. It always feeds, always cycles, always goes bang. I converted it and it continues its stellar reliability. What can I say? It's a genuine Russian AK, born on the AK-100-series assembly lines.
With 3 different mags (factory, and 2 Surefires), I've put countless rounds through my Saiga .223 without a single malfunction. It always feeds, always cycles, always goes bang. I converted it and it continues its stellar reliability. What can I say? It's a genuine Russian AK, born on the AK-100-series assembly lines.
the awesomeness known as Stratus said:
i can agree with the get a real AK bit. either get a Real AK in 7.62X39 or 5.45X39, or get an AR in 5.56.
if this is going to be a go to gun of any kind a "real" ak will have readily available mags and parts cheap.
a regular AR will have parts and mags cheap.
i considered the idea of a 7.62X39 AR. but when you take a platform out of its original caliber it gets pricey and a general PITA.
briansmithwins
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The Arsenal 5.56 AK is excellent. Mine was a 100% rifle that never failed. The good (Circle 10 waffle mags) are kind of expensive, but they are damn tough.
The 5.56 AK had the advantages of a much flatter cartridge than the 7.62x39. Recoil is also less, not that 7.62x39 is rough by any means.BSW
The 5.56 AK had the advantages of a much flatter cartridge than the 7.62x39. Recoil is also less, not that 7.62x39 is rough by any means.BSW
Prince Yamato
Member
He's in Connecticut. They have a ban on AKs that fire 7.62x39...
so...
get a converted Saiga or get an Arsenal.
coinshooter
Member
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- 131
My Arsenal 106 is great.
Gunfighter123
Member
There is also a Golani AK47 type of rifle that fires the .223 ---- it is based of the Israil Galil . You have to buy a "fix" for it and it will take AR-15 mags ---- The Golani , Saiga and the others do not take AR-15 mags.
I wonder if you can change a .7.62 X 39 AK mag into a .223 AK mag ??
I wonder if you can change a .7.62 X 39 AK mag into a .223 AK mag ??
Prince Yamato
Member
No, but orange 5.45 AK mags can be changed to .223 to work in Norinco .223 AKs.
nalioth
Member
[quote='Prince Yamato"]No, but orange 5.45 AK mags can be changed to .223 to work in Norinco .223 AKs.[/quote] . . only if you have a loose definition of "work".
The mags are shaped differently, and this affects reliability. While you can get them to lock in, the more rounds you put in them increases the odds of a jam. This is because the cartridges are of a different shape.
You can see the curvature differences yourself. From left to right: 30 round Bulgarian 5.56x45, 20 round Bulgarian 5.56x45, 30 round Bulgarian 7.62x32 and Bulgarian 30 round 5.45x39. You are comparing the mags on each end.
Besides, destroying a 5.45x39 mag is an expensive proposition nowadays. . .
The mags are shaped differently, and this affects reliability. While you can get them to lock in, the more rounds you put in them increases the odds of a jam. This is because the cartridges are of a different shape.
You can see the curvature differences yourself. From left to right: 30 round Bulgarian 5.56x45, 20 round Bulgarian 5.56x45, 30 round Bulgarian 7.62x32 and Bulgarian 30 round 5.45x39. You are comparing the mags on each end.
Besides, destroying a 5.45x39 mag is an expensive proposition nowadays. . .
HorseSoldier
Member
Don't the Norincos use a AK-47 sized magwell? That wouldn't work with 74 mags.
And +1 on doing major alterations to orange bakelite Russian or East German mags not being a real viable route, money wise.
And +1 on doing major alterations to orange bakelite Russian or East German mags not being a real viable route, money wise.
Gunfighter123
Member
Thanks for the info on the mags.
I agree about the price on .223 AK mags --- they are not cheap and 5.54 mags ain't cheap either -- even AR15 mags are more then a few months ago.
I really would like to get one of them Golani's but like WASRs I hear mixed reviews of them.
Anybody own one ????
I agree about the price on .223 AK mags --- they are not cheap and 5.54 mags ain't cheap either -- even AR15 mags are more then a few months ago.
I really would like to get one of them Golani's but like WASRs I hear mixed reviews of them.
Anybody own one ????
Prince Yamato
Member
They were used during the AWB I believe, unless they were modded for SAR-3s. I know that I've seen 74 mags with the base-plate marked (.223). I think the follower was replaced too.
nalioth
Member
They were offered by Century. This is back when the East German bakelites could be had for 10 cents a piece (or less) in bulk.Prince Yamato said:
Century only stamped the floorplate ".223", ground the lips open a bit (for what purpose, I have no clue), and painted some of them with a black stripe. Nothing more was done.
Guess Century foisted off another Jedi mind trick on the unsuspecting public . . .
Even with a "special follower", it doesn't make up for the magazine shape, so you'll still get jams, and this is a large reason the SAR-3 and WASR-3 from that era are seen as "jam-o-matics" and "unreliable".
ds92 i have a norinco in .223 and i absolutley love this ak variant. i was very fortunate to have got i for a really good price from a friend. but now all the panic has drove the prices sky high so expect to pay more. but i would suggest a vz58 as the way prices are on aks you could get a vz w/milled receiver and still shoot cheap 7.62x39 ammo as compared to the higher priced .223 ammo good luck on your choice
heres my norinco in .223, original mags are $$$$ so i just bought promags for 14 bucks and modified it a little and have no problems feeding
my vz58 7.62x39
heres my norinco in .223, original mags are $$$$ so i just bought promags for 14 bucks and modified it a little and have no problems feeding
my vz58 7.62x39
Prince Yamato
Member
Now that's a thought... a VZ-58 is not an AK-type weapon and is available in 7.62x39... It would be CT legal with the fixed stock.
.223/5.56 Norinco AK84s is now priced like a new AR, .223/5.56 Mak-90's have to be 'parts compliant' to use a reg pistol grip an that means swapping internals.
BUT: In Norinco guns, Ak-74 mags WILL work if you only load 20 rounds, OR swap out the followers with Robinson armaments .223 followers you can load 30. Real Norinco 30 round mags weren't cheap before the latest buying craze ($45 ish each) but a number of folks say the .223 pro mags work with some fiddling.
BUT: In Norinco guns, Ak-74 mags WILL work if you only load 20 rounds, OR swap out the followers with Robinson armaments .223 followers you can load 30. Real Norinco 30 round mags weren't cheap before the latest buying craze ($45 ish each) but a number of folks say the .223 pro mags work with some fiddling.
Hi, Just signed up..
Need some Pro Mag mod info... I have a Norinco 84s-1 and am trying to mod the pro mags to fit. I see "ifit" has successfully made the mod...
I filed the locking tang to match my original steel mag, but its not locking in and seems to be hitting the receiver. I was wondering should I also be taking some of the shoulder down on the to of the mag?
Thanks any info would be appreciated. and I have looked high and low for Norinco mags, with no luck.
gottobe
Need some Pro Mag mod info... I have a Norinco 84s-1 and am trying to mod the pro mags to fit. I see "ifit" has successfully made the mod...
I filed the locking tang to match my original steel mag, but its not locking in and seems to be hitting the receiver. I was wondering should I also be taking some of the shoulder down on the to of the mag?
Thanks any info would be appreciated. and I have looked high and low for Norinco mags, with no luck.
gottobe
C5Cruiser
Member
The Sig Sauer 556 is a spinoff of the AK-47 HOWEVER tighter tolerances and much better workmanship.
nalioth
Member
C5Cruiser said:
It's a red-headed stepchild that uses features from many rifles that preceded it.
It is not a direct spinoff of the AK. The Finnish RK95 and Galil rifle are.
I sure would love to, but our fearless legislators banned AK's in 7.62x39. A 74 or type in 5.45x39 would be great, but i cant find any cheap ones on gunbroker that arent made by CAI, and i'm not quite sure about the quality of CAI's 74's. Does anybody have one? what are they like?
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