6.5 has made obsolete my rifles

[mcb]

I hunted deer several years with projectiles that have a roughly 0.05 BC... It still got the job done.

A pet peeve of mine is everyone reporting a G1 BC for all these VLD bullets. G7 is almost always a better ballistic match and for that mater it is usually still a mediocre match at best hence the need to report two or three different BC's for different velocity ranges. In this day and age of with nearly all the major bullet manufactures having radars (you can buy less capable ballistic radars at the consumer level now) and the proliferation of everyone carrying around pocket computers why there are not new ballistic models that actually fit the ballistics of the VLD bullets is beyond me. If I was making bullets I would publish a ballistic model for my bullet rather than try to shoe horn it into the existed models. I really don't care to compare it to other bullets or how flat the trajectory is but how accurately I can predict it.

 

[Gtscotty]

I worked on an article 10yrs ago, kept cataloging info since directly from ammo and firearms manufacturers. The 30-06 hasn’t been in the top 10 averaged firearms or ammunition sales in that time.

Color me curious, what do your top 10 lists look like, and where do you harvest the information?

 

[MachIVshooter]

I don't think ammunition sales can be used as a representation of usage.

Certainly not in this capacity. We have no reliable metric for number of different people buying what type of ammo that would be useful in demonstrating that 10,000 rounds of 5.56 bought by one person vs 50 boxes of .30-06 bought by 37 individuals does not reflect the 5.56 being 10 times as popular. It assumes a constant per capita usage rate of a consumable, ignores all other variables. I'll burn through more .308 in a single day testing one suppressor design than I'll likely fire out of my 8mm Mag in my lifetime.

 

[CoalTrain49]

If I go to the local sporting goods stores and look at the bolt action rifles on the shelf probably 20% of them are 30-06. I don't think ammunition sales can be used as a representation of usage. Most people deer hunting buy a box of ammo every other year.

And they still have more than they can use.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I know one thing. I shoot 2-3K of .223 a year. That has to drive up the popularity, right?

 

[.308 Norma]

And they still have more than they can use.

Actually a lot less, if they practice like they should IMO.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I think we’re also seeing a generational shift in common uses for rifles. A lot of guys my age or younger don’t really hunt very much. I was brought up target shooting, then went into the Marines and shot what Uncle Sam wanted shot, got into competitive shooting, and still enjoy training and shooting.

I’ve tried to like hunting, and done a bit of it.. but at the end of the day hunting is not an activity I go out of my way to do anymore. I haven’t applied for tags in South Dakota in 3 years now. It’s almost impossible to have good hunts on public land because of all the other hunters, and getting on private land is far too expensive to be worthwhile for me. Hunting in this country is slowly but surely going the way of hunting in Europe: a rich person or landed gentry activity. So the trends in firearms sales reflect that, as do cartridges.

Every year the state raises the fee for licenses and tags. Every year more private land is locked up and accessible only to a select few who want to pay for an annual membership. I gave up hunting about 10 years ago when the state closed the state park on the Snake River where we based. I miss the hunts but I don't miss the high cost.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I’ve tried to like hunting, and done a bit of it.. but at the end of the day hunting is not an activity I go out of my way to do anymore. I haven’t applied for tags in South Dakota in 3 years now. It’s almost impossible to have good hunts on public land because of all the other hunters, and getting on private land is far too expensive to be worthwhile for me. Hunting in this country is slowly but surely going the way of hunting in Europe: a rich person or landed gentry activity. So the trends in firearms sales reflect that, as do cartridges.

You have almost perfectly described why hunting is slowly dying in this country. I too am sick and tired of expensive camping trips with rifles and tons of other people on public land.

 

[someguy2800]

We have more game in this country than anytime in a century and a half and everyone complains public land is crowded with hunters, but hunting is a dying sport?

 

[Llama Bob]

We have more game in this country than anytime in a century and a half and everyone complains public land is crowded with hunters, but hunting is a dying sport?

No one goes there any more. It's too crowded

 

[Llama Bob]

In marketing, “popularity” is really simple - what’s selling. I catalog that based on firearms and ammunition sales. Without a doubt, the .30-06 has a greater percentage of ammo sales than it does firearms sales in recent years, but it’s not a high seller in either ammo nor firearms. That generation has long passed.

Absolutely.

Of course, if you were to catalog saltiness and bunched undies on the internet as their favored calibers are replaced, .30-06 and .270 shooters would be at the very top. They're not falling being in everything

 

[Coal Dragger]

We have more game in this country than anytime in a century and a half and everyone complains public land is crowded with hunters, but hunting is a dying sport?

Hunting is a dying sport. The fact public lands are over hunted doesn’t mean hunting is popular, it just means that non land owning hunters are left with no other places to go.

Yes we have a lot of game animals running around. I probably kill 10-15 head of deer or antelope a year (among other things) with locomotives. Our right of way looks like a demented butcher shop. I see many many trophy grade mule deer and whitetail deer any given drive to or from work. All on private land, where I and all the other regular hunters that don’t want to part with a minimum of $500 trespass fees can’t get them.

Go down to public land and you find jack and crap, no grass because the same rancher who charges trespass fees or leases his place for hunting also grazes his cattle on that public land until the last minute before hunting seasons open. No grass = few game animals.

I have a potential solution to this problem that would never be adopted. Namely no land owner tags, depredation payments, agricultural subsidies, or agricultural property tax rates unless walk in hunting is allowed. You own land and want to pad your pockets with tax payer money, and soak hunters like you have a private game reserve? Well I would tax you out of business, and ensure that you got to hunt just as little as everyone else. To keep you honest about not hunting your own place I’d give game wardens big big bonuses to catch land owners poaching.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Of course, if you were to catalog saltiness and bunched undies on the internet as their favored calibers are replaced, .30-06 and .270 shooters would be at the very top. They're not falling being in everything

The "saltiness" might have something to do with relentless pontification from the proponents, many of whom are wholly unqualified to make the statements they do. And then there's the hypcrisy: "You don't need a .300 magnum to kill a deer" with "the 6.5 wonderthunder carries 200 ft lbs more energy to the 1,000 yard line" in the same breath.

 

[saiga308]

I watch Wednesday Night at the Range on the Outdoor channel. Every week it seems they are hyping a 6.5 cartridge ad nauseam. Last night it was the 6.5 Grendel. Last week it was the Creedmoor. It seems this hyping has been going on for at least a couple of years. I'm beginning to think my old 30-30 will not kill a deer anymore or my .280 Rem. is no longer accurate to 300 yards.
The 6.5 may be an outstanding round but I'm not ready to sell off my inventory to find out. When something is hyped that much for so long I tend to shy away from it. This is also true of the 6.5

i would shoot a 7mm-08 before i go off the deep end in too the wimp mode of shooting a 6.5

 

[Garandimal]

The 6.5 CM...?

6.5 Creedmoor Versus 270 Winchester​

Ron's wrong. The 145 ELD-X won't achieve it's advertised BC out of the 1:10" twist .270. The .270 looks a lot worse when checked on radar.

Berger rates this bullet from a 1:10 twist barrel well into the comfortably stable range.

What data do you have to dispute this or Hornady's claims?




GR

 

[Coal Dragger]

You have almost perfectly described why hunting is slowly dying in this country. I too am sick and tired of expensive camping trips with rifles and tons of other people on public land.

I wish I didn’t have to express that sentiment but at this time what I described is my view of hunting in this country, at least in most areas in the lower 48 states.

I have a finite budget for recreational activities, and limited time. I’m almost 40 years old, I have a full time job that takes up a lot of my time, a wife, and a 1 year old (as of 09/09/18!) son. When I have free time I prefer to spend it doing things that are actually fun. Freezing my butt off in the southwest corner of SD on the Buffalo Gap National Grasslands hoping to find a mule deer or whitetail when everyone else with a tag for that unit is in the same spot hoping for the same thing... while all the deer are on private land does not constitute fun. Same for Black Hills deer tags.

I’d rather go to the range and shoot, my equipment purchases reflect that.

In the meantime all the various state conservation departments can whine and cry about tag revenues declining every year. They’re part of the problem and they can all go pound sand with the land owners that want tresspass fees. They won’t get a dime from me.

 

[Robert]

While I may not disagree with some of the things said, we have drifted pretty far from the original topic.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Every once and a while I get the 6.5 bug. My kid shoots a 6.5-06 and we love it! It’s a low recoil, flat shooting, hard hitting, easy to shoot, hunting rifle. When I do get all twitterpaited about a 6.5 of some sort I go and have a good hard look between a .264 WM and my .270 Wthby built on a M-70 action. At the same SD we’ve got similar BC and the .270 Wthby beats the .264 by just a little in velocity . If you take a 6.5-06 and compare it to a .270 Win you’ll find that they are darn close. The primary issue here is “preoccupation with inconsequential increments”. Shootability of the rifle and skill beat a slight BC or velocity advantage every time. Inherent accuracy of the 6.5 you say, that must be the deciding factor? My .270 Wthby will regularly shoot 3” groups at 600 yards off the bench. Once again if the rifle is accurate it matters not what the bore diameter is. The person behind the trigger is the defining factor.

To me the 6.5 CM is basically the new .243. It is a rifle that is perfectly suited for shooters who are shy of recoil. And of course and unlike the .243 it has a decent bullet selection. I really like the 6.5 CM in that role, I personally have zero need for one.

 

[H&Hhunter]

We have more game in this country than anytime in a century and a half and everyone complains public land is crowded with hunters, but hunting is a dying sport?

(Momentary thread drift)
I’m going to start a thread on this subject over in hunting. Please come on over and throw your $.02 in.
(New back to your regularly scheduled programming)