6.5 PRC The Fastest Growing Hunting cartridge

[robin banks]

you could call the 6.5 PRC.... the 6.5 NEED-more

 

[CraigC]

Maybe - due note that I don't think any of the new cartridges are *bad* - just unnecessary IMHO. When I say progress I mean the process, not necessary the direction. Trying actual new things. I don't personally see a big deal between short vs long actions. Heck the vast majority of my "short actions" are built on long actions with mag well spacers and I couldn't care less.

Also if I were in the market for a brand new rifle I'd also probably look at something popular (eg, 6.5 Creedmoor) over something similar which was already out (eg, .260 Remington), just because of simple market dynamics. I don't actively disdain a new round because its new, but that also doesn't mean that I don't think that the 6.5 Creedmoor wasn't a needless rehash of the .260 Rem concept.

Take any "new" cartridge - the brand new 7mm PRC for example which is supposed to be the new hotness. Increase the width of the base and cartridge body by another 15%. Boom - more capacity, more velocity, and more power: 7mm MegaUltraBoom(tm). Tell people that's what they need and they need to buy it. Wait a few more years, shrink it back down by 25-30% for a milder cartridge and now sell them on the idea that the 7mm Balanced(tm) is just what they need to avoid the barrel burning and heavy recoil of the 7mm MUB.

I'll give SIG some credit with the new service round in that they are trying something a little different with the bi-metal case, but honestly when it comes to just changing the shape of a brass cartridge to make it faster or slower (whichever the advertiser feels like pushing at the moment), there's nothing really new under the sun.

And a lot of buyers get bit in the process by getting rifles that are eventually associated with obsolete rounds that never take off. 6.5 Creedmoor broke through and has some staying power. Most people who bought a rifle in .30 TC aren't so lucky.

My advice is to not buy into the hype, and until proven otherwise assume that anything new will be a handloading only proposition within 10-15 years until proven otherwise. If you can live with that, then by all means try the bleeding edge stuff.

The 6.5CM is not just a needless rehash. It was designed for a specific purpose, to do things the .260 was not intended to do. The .260 was a hunting cartridge from day one. The 6.5CM was a long range target cartridge. The faster standard twist meant better stability with heavier bullets at longer range. Making cartridges shorter, fatter, with sharper shoulders and longer necks makes them more efficient. Particularly in shorter barrels. The 6.5CM specifically intended to fit the AR10 platform and its magazines. It was designed by long range target shooters for long range target shooting. It shoots flatter than the .300WM without the blast and recoil, along with fitting into tidier platforms. It wasn't designed to make deer deader. Same for the PRC's.

 

[robin banks]

The 6.5CM is not just a needless rehash. It was designed for a specific purpose, to do things the .260 was not intended to do. The .260 was a hunting cartridge from day one. The 6.5CM was a long range target cartridge. The faster standard twist meant better stability with heavier bullets at longer range. Making cartridges shorter, fatter, with sharper shoulders and longer necks makes them more efficient. Particularly in shorter barrels. The 6.5CM specifically intended to fit the AR10 platform and its magazines. It was designed by long range target shooters for long range target shooting. It shoots flatter than the .300WM without the blast and recoil, along with fitting into tidier platforms. It wasn't designed to make deer deader. Same for the PRC's.

jim carmichael necked down a 308 to 6.5 and went to a 1000 yd match placed real well against fire belching magnums and remington guys were there liked it and proceeded to destroy the round like they did so many others. Jim designed it for target work first then hunting

 

[CraigC]

jim carmichael necked down a 308 to 6.5 and went to a 1000 yd match placed real well against fire belching magnums and remington guys were there liked it and proceeded to destroy the round like they did so many others. Jim designed it for target work first then hunting

Then why did we need a faster standard twist? Either way, there were tangible improvements to be made.

 

[robin banks]

Then why did we need a faster standard twist? Either way, there were tangible improvements to be made.

didnt remington destroy the 6MM with the wrong twist? jims rifle had the right twist. the 6.5 CM is a half con job

 

[gotboostvr]

didnt remington destroy the 6MM with the wrong twist? jims rifle had the right twist. the 6.5 CM is a half con job

More or less.

They could have done a better job with the 280 Rem too. Marketing made things worse for the 6mm and 280 on top of it.

 

[CraigC]

didnt remington destroy the 6MM with the wrong twist? jims rifle had the right twist. the 6.5 CM is a half con job

The .260 did not, not for 'that' purpose. It was intended and marketed for hunting.

The 6.5 was developed by folks who had already learned the .260's shortcomings and sought to eliminate them. But I guess folks get an idea in their head and won't be swayed by the facts.

 

[Varminterror]

There exist many cartridges which the original design did not incorporate an appropriate twist rate or action length. Even exceptionally popular rounds like 22-250, 270, 260rem, 243win, etc…

In many instances, these were marketed as flat shooting lasers, which some folks assumed meant “long range rounds”. Whereas that really meant - “25 extra yards of MPBR” We’ve been building custom “fast twist” rifles in a lot of these cartridges for a long time, and tolerating long action rifles to shoot short action cartridges for a long time. Hell, it was normal to several of the guys I learned BR shooting from almost 20yrs ago to not have a bolt stop in their rifle, because their loaded rounds were too long to eject - so they could remove the bolt entirely to remove loaded rounds… we tolerated a bunch of dumb stuff and spent money building rifles the way they should have been built in the first place because what was available.

Now, better ideas have prevailed.

 

[WisBorn]

didnt remington destroy the 6MM with the wrong twist? jims rifle had the right twist. the 6.5 CM is a half con job

Remington started the 6mm rem life as the 244 rem and it had to slow a twist rate. It was more a varmint gun. Bullets over 80ish grains wouldn't group well. They speed up the barrel twist to compete against the 243win and stabilize 100 grain bullets. At that time they renamed it the 6mm rem.

 

[robin banks]

More or less.

They could have done a better job with the 280 Rem too. Marketing made things worse for the 6mm and 280 on top of it.

I feel the 280 remington is one of the best all around caliber

 

[robin banks]

The .260 did not, not for 'that' purpose. It was intended and marketed for hunting.

The 6.5 was developed by folks who had already learned the .260's shortcomings and sought to eliminate them. But I guess folks get an idea in their head and won't be swayed by the facts.

jim carmichael scored very high in the 1000 match with all the "shortcomings" of the 260. I am going by facts you fell for the marketing

 

[C-grunt]

I was curious so i looked up what info I could find on Jim Carmicheal and the development of the 260. Much of what i read was that he just helped get the wildcat round standardized. The 6.5-08 was invented back in the 50s by a guy named Watters.

So it sounds like Carmicheal didn't actually develop the round.

 

[gotboostvr]

I feel the 280 remington is one of the best all around caliber

Oh it's very good. But the 280AI is even better with more case capacity and a slightly faster twist.

It really got screwed by Rem's marketing too.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I almost bought a 6.5 PRC, until I heard about the 7 PRC.

Then again, I hunt and already have a 6.5 Creedmoor so I like the variation.

I think these new rounds are cool. More the merrier. Let's just hope I don't get stuck with another defunct cartridge and platform...

... Here's looking at you, Ruger Compact Magnum...

 

[robin banks]

Oh it's very good. But the 280AI is even better with more case capacity and a slightly faster twist.

It really got screwed by Rem's marketing too.

yes you are right. you dont gain much with the AI but it keeps the 280 alive. if remington came out with the 30-06 within 5 years you would never hear of it again

 

[robin banks]

I was curious so i looked up what info I could find on Jim Carmicheal and the development of the 260. Much of what i read was that he just helped get the wildcat round standardized. The 6.5-08 was invented back in the 50s by a guy named Watters.

So it sounds like Carmicheal didn't actually develop the round.

never got that far into it but one guy said it was developed as a hunting round and I said it wasnt at first. it was used as a target round. if it was ken watters he was a famous ammo innovator

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

I almost bought a 6.5 PRC, until I heard about the 7 PRC.

Then again, I hunt and already have a 6.5 Creedmoor so I like the variation.

I think these new rounds are cool. More the merrier. Let's just hope I don't get stuck with another defunct cartridge and platform...

... Here's looking at you, Ruger Compact Magnum...

So is the 7PRC a Medium length cartridge correct? In that it's between a 6.5 and 300 PRC in length? See I like the 6.5 PRC cause it's like a 6.5 Man Bun, but for men, lol!! More power! Tim Allen would be proud.

 

[CraigC]

jim carmichael scored very high in the 1000 match with all the "shortcomings" of the 260. I am going by facts you fell for the marketing

No, I'm going by the FACTS gleaned from PRS shooting this century and the actual reasons for the cartridge's development. Facts which you seem to be happily ignorant of. Please note that the 6.5CM is falling out of favor over the various 6mm's and the .260 has already fallen completely off the map. These numbers are also a couple years old.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/14/rifle-caliber/

The 6.5CM haters always talk about the marketing that folks are falling for, yet I never see what they're referring to.

 

[mgmorden]

The 6.5CM haters

Don't confuse saying it was unnecessary with being a "hater". I was the one who originally said it was redundant. I actually own a 6.5 Creedmoor - I don't own a .260 Remington (though I do have a 6.5x55 Swede as well). 6.5 Creed is one where it most certainly overcame the momentum problem and has become established. My only complaint is that for most shooters (eg, outside of hyper-specific competition uses), very few cartridges are doing anything new, and with many you can eventually get "stranded" with something that its hard to find ammo for. 6.5 Creedmoor is a big exception to this. Who knows 6.5 PRC might be too - eventually. There are a lot that are already fading into obscurity though. EG, .30 T/C, .223 WSSM and .25 WSSM, .300 RCM, .338 Federal, .308 Marlin Express, etc.

There are also a lot of by-gone cartridges that are hard to find ammo for. EG, .30 Remington, 8mm Remington Magnum, .225 Winchester, etc.

Now, yes, for most of them if you look around long and hard enough you can find a box of ammo to shoot, and many times if you're a handloader you can make working rounds for an obsolete caliber, but for the AVERAGE shooter, I wouldn't recommend jumping onto any new cartridges until they're established - particularly if you plan on keeping a gun basically forever (if you buy and sell guns in your cabinet on the regular then it doesn't matter much). If you're that type of shooter - I'd say buy a gun in .223 Rem, .308 Win or 6.5 Creedmoor (depending on usage needs) - at least for a first rifle.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

So is the 7PRC a Medium length cartridge correct? In that it's between a 6.5 and 300 PRC in length? See I like the 6.5 PRC cause it's like a 6.5 Man Bun, but for men, lol!! More power! Tim Allen would be proud.

I had a man-bun-mullet during the pandemic since the world was in chaos.

Funny that everyone that busted my chops about my long hair was balding lol.

I see more "haters of the fanboys" of the Creedmoor than I actually see fanboys of the Creedmoor.

Having said that, everyone knows the gun hipsters are now going to the 44-40.

 

[CraigC]

Don't confuse saying it was unnecessary with being a "hater". I was the one who originally said it was redundant. I actually own a 6.5 Creedmoor - I don't own a .260 Remington (though I do have a 6.5x55 Swede as well). 6.5 Creed is one where it most certainly overcame the momentum problem and has become established. My only complaint is that for most shooters (eg, outside of hyper-specific competition uses), very few cartridges are doing anything new, and with many you can eventually get "stranded" with something that its hard to find ammo for. 6.5 Creedmoor is a big exception to this. Who knows 6.5 PRC might be too - eventually. There are a lot that are already fading into obscurity though. EG, .30 T/C, .223 WSSM and .25 WSSM, .300 RCM, .338 Federal, .308 Marlin Express, etc.

There are also a lot of by-gone cartridges that are hard to find ammo for. EG, .30 Remington, 8mm Remington Magnum, .225 Winchester, etc.

Now, yes, for most of them if you look around long and hard enough you can find a box of ammo to shoot, and many times if you're a handloader you can make working rounds for an obsolete caliber, but for the AVERAGE shooter, I wouldn't recommend jumping onto any new cartridges until they're established - particularly if you plan on keeping a gun basically forever (if you buy and sell guns in your cabinet on the regular then it doesn't matter much). If you're that type of shooter - I'd say buy a gun in .223 Rem, .308 Win or 6.5 Creedmoor (depending on usage needs) - at least for a first rifle.

I was referring specifically to the "haters" that always talk about people being suckers falling for marketing.

As far as doing things new or differently, it completely depends on the application. For killing deer, you're absolutely right. For the application for which the 6.5CM was designed and intended, it's a different story. Take note of the article I linked to. Look at all those cartridges. Have you heard of any of them, other than the 6mm and 6.5CM? That's the point. An off the shelf cartridge, chambered in affordable rifles that can be competitive. The fact that any of them can be used for game is just an added bonus. I was attracted to the 6.5x55 and 6.5x54MS from the time I was very young. Never got one. I wanted a .260 from the time it was introduced. Just never had much use for one, so I never took the plunge. By the time I got around to it, it had faded in popularity to the point that few new rifles are offered in it. Today, the 6.5CM and Grendel are very popular and very available. I can walk into virtually any gun shop and find multiple rifles that chamber them. So I have three Grendels and one CM. Am I a victim of marketing or "new is better" fever? No. It's purely circumstantial. One gets to enjoy the moderate 6.5's in new rifles, without much hassle, along with enjoying whatever advantages they have over their predecessors. Personally, I think it's cool that the caliber has evolved beyond the romanticism of the 6.5x54MS I used to lust after.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

I had a man-bun-mullet during the pandemic since the world was in chaos.

Funny that everyone that busted my chops about my long hair was balding lol.

I see more "haters of the fanboys" of the Creedmoor than I actually see fanboys of the Creedmoor.

Having said that, everyone knows the gun hipsters are now going to the 44-40.

Haha yeah I don't see anything wrong with 6.5 Creedmoor as a cartridge, I just don't understand the hype as the best precision long range cartridge ever designed which is how some people view it it seems.

 

[EBB67]

Haha yeah I don't see anything wrong with 6.5 Creedmoor as a cartridge, I just don't understand the hype as the best precision long range cartridge ever designed which is how some people view it it seems.

Personally is BS round. out 500 yards its darn equal to 308 or 30-06, then its 3x the price. lets not forget they eat barrels in as little as 2500 rounds. I shoot .308, 300WM, mostly. if 308 won't cut it, then the last thing i'd buy for over a 1000 is the creedmoor. next in line is the 300wm If it works don't fix it. The 6.5 crowd is almost cult like. a while back i was at a range and they had a long distance area, with a 975 yard max. I was there with my dpms lr308, with 24" stainless bull, match trigger and PRS stock. so the guy shows up and pulls out this bright red chassis style rifle, turns out its $6000 Accuracy International, and is in 6.5??? to top it off he determines steel barrels are no good and dumps $1300 more for a carbon trainwreck. and to complete his show of wealth its got a scope near $5000. short version is he makes fun of my autoloader and vortex scope, and so I challenge him to a contest for $200, shoot steel 100 through 850 then 100 3 shot group and winner with tightest spread and no misses wins. I blew threw it, and even managed just about .75 for the group, and with his $12,000 plus dollars of equipment his carbon barrell heated up and never got past 600, then at 100 only manage 1 round at the corner of the paper with the others in limbo. He paid up then blamed Accuracy. I wouldnt own a 6.5 for free. if i'm gonna go oddball i'll go 7mmPRC, 7mm08, even 270 for that matter. I can't figure these clowns out. and I've yet to find anyone give me a concrete example of how the 6.5 performed any miricals. As former LE Iive seen it all. the 6.5 characters belong with the 9mm worshipers. I remember back in the day how they'd tease my buddy with his 6" 357 python, until he took at a guy with a shotgun from 12 feet away. the guy was 6'7 and 300 pounds, and that 357 hit him sqare in the chest and I sweart with that one shot he hit the floor stoned ass dead before the smoke cleared, then the teaser get run down by a car and runs 15 rounds of 115 gr silvertip 9mm of the 15, only two penetraded the windshield and slowed to the point that they actually bounced off the driver and were recovered in his lap.lol laslty lets talk LE snipers, were the averager shooting is under 100 yards. If I were to shoot you at say 75 or even 100 yards, with a 308, how much deader would the 6.5 make you ??
Target wise i've shot back to back my 308 to their 6.5s and ringing steel at a thousand or under they gain zero. the 6.5 is the keep up with the jones round, just like the someone telling me they're making 1200 yard shots with a 12" AR pistol. give me a break

 

[rayatphonix]

EBB67, where do you live that 6.5 CM is 3 times the price of 308 & 30-06? Comparing quality to quality 308 and 6.5 CM are very similar in price in the Carolinas.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

Personally is BS round. out 500 yards its darn equal to 308 or 30-06, then its 3x the price. lets not forget they eat barrels in as little as 2500 rounds. I shoot .308, 300WM, mostly. if 308 won't cut it, then the last thing i'd buy for over a 1000 is the creedmoor. next in line is the 300wm If it works don't fix it. The 6.5 crowd is almost cult like. a while back i was at a range and they had a long distance area, with a 975 yard max. I was there with my dpms lr308, with 24" stainless bull, match trigger and PRS stock. so the guy shows up and pulls out this bright red chassis style rifle, turns out its $6000 Accuracy International, and is in 6.5??? to top it off he determines steel barrels are no good and dumps $1300 more for a carbon trainwreck. and to complete his show of wealth its got a scope near $5000. short version is he makes fun of my autoloader and vortex scope, and so I challenge him to a contest for $200, shoot steel 100 through 850 then 100 3 shot group and winner with tightest spread and no misses wins. I blew threw it, and even managed just about .75 for the group, and with his $12,000 plus dollars of equipment his carbon barrell heated up and never got past 600, then at 100 only manage 1 round at the corner of the paper with the others in limbo. He paid up then blamed Accuracy. I wouldnt own a 6.5 for free. if i'm gonna go oddball i'll go 7mmPRC, 7mm08, even 270 for that matter. I can't figure these clowns out. and I've yet to find anyone give me a concrete example of how the 6.5 performed any miricals. As former LE Iive seen it all. the 6.5 characters belong with the 9mm worshipers. I remember back in the day how they'd tease my buddy with his 6" 357 python, until he took at a guy with a shotgun from 12 feet away. the guy was 6'7 and 300 pounds, and that 357 hit him sqare in the chest and I sweart with that one shot he hit the floor stoned ass dead before the smoke cleared, then the teaser get run down by a car and runs 15 rounds of 115 gr silvertip 9mm of the 15, only two penetraded the windshield and slowed to the point that they actually bounced off the driver and were recovered in his lap.lol laslty lets talk LE snipers, were the averager shooting is under 100 yards. If I were to shoot you at say 75 or even 100 yards, with a 308, how much deader would the 6.5 make you ??
Target wise i've shot back to back my 308 to their 6.5s and ringing steel at a thousand or under they gain zero. the 6.5 is the keep up with the jones round, just like the someone telling me they're making 1200 yard shots with a 12" AR pistol. give me a break

Yeah see I like the 6.5 PRC cause it's a 6.5-284 with better marketing and has more people/manufacturers supporting it. I just like the super skinny bullets lol. A .264 150gr SMK is almost comical in shape lol. However, in my Mossberg Patriot Predator with a muzzle brake it still has a bit of a thump, about like a 270 Winchester... I also have a 270 and it's great. And don't get me wrong 30-06 is still my favorite caliber as I have an M1 Garand and it's sweet.