6.8 Convince me.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Better terminal ballistics??? Of all the flaws the AK and it's 7.62x39 round have poor terminal ballistics have never been on that list. The standard rounds have a well earned reputation for reliably yawing within 2-3" of contact, BTW that is vastly better then our 62gr (green tip) 5.56 rounds that sometimes fail to yaw at all passing thrrough the bad guys. The only bad thing you could possably say about the 7.62x39 122 or 123gr bullet is that they don't fragment but even without the fragmenting they make a fantastic permanate wound tract and provide plenty of shock on target. External ballistics are not the strong suit of either of them, BC of a .311cal 123gr Hot Core is .292BC the 110gr Pro Hunter 6.8mm has a BC of .318, both of them simply pale in comparison to many other military calibers and even some other AR calibers (6x45 and 6.5 Grendal come to mind) As far as function in an AR platform I would agree 100%
 
The 6.8 has a better velocity and will retain it better than the x39. There are also a veritable plethora of bullets of the correct size and construction on the market to make the 6.8 the best choice for a hunting cartridge in the AR-15 platform. The .311 bore of the x39 limits the selection of bullets, not to mention the fact that not a lot of people use it to hunt keeping a lid on the expansion of the market. If it gained more widespread use as a hunting round and was chambered in something other than, predominately, com-bloc semi-autos that most guys buy simply as a range toy because of the cheap ammo then the bullet market might open up.

As it is right now the civilian market, despite the efforts of Remington to abandon their mistake with the SAAMI submission, has gotten behind the 6.8 even though it was never adopted by the military. The fact that the 6.8 market is growing despite the lack of cheap mil-surp or relatively cheap bulk "plinking" ammo should be a good indicator that it brings something legit to the table. Pretty much every AR manufacturer makes 6.8 parts and/or rifles (except those owned by Cerberus/Freedom Group since they're trying to pretend that they didn't screw up the SAAMI submission) and several bullet companies (including one now owned by Freedom Group: Barnes) have developed bullets specifically for the 6.8 designed either with enhanced velocity potential (95gn TTSX), different bullet profiles to maximize weight while remaining within the mag. OAL limits of the AR-15 (120gn SST) or enhanced long range performance (Berger 140gn). I haven't seen 6.8 ammo at Wal-Mart yet, but I haven't seen 7.62x39 other than "blasting" ammo there either. I actually think that more companies currently load 6.8 than x39 and there are certainly more different loads available.
 
Stick with the 5,56. With the best bullets it will take any deer, or deer sized animal out to 200-250 yrds.

The 6.8 looks better on paper, but paper ballistics never killed anything.
 
Unless you actually like a little margin for error. The .223 affords you none at any kind of range. Sure the deer may die, but not in the span of time that you should consider ethical or that may allow you to recover it. Not a concern when shooting at the enemy, but should be the primary consideration when hunting game.
 
If your gonna compare terminal ballistics, you have to compare apples to apples:

http://www.hornady.com/store/7.62X39-123-gr-SST/
Vs.
http://www.hornady.com/store/6.8mm-SPC-120-GR-SST/

As i read these, the 6.8 stomps the x39. The higher and retained velocity go to the 6.8, the BC of the 6.8 is bars higher and the energy stays up longer... How is this close? And these are modest velocitys, not handloaded velocitys. Not to mention the couple feet drop differance....
Plus, if you note the test barrel length... 20" for the x39 and 16" for the 6.8.
 
Last edited:
The 6.8 is NOT the best round, but it is the best round that will fit into the standard AR platform. I have two of them and I am done with the .223.

The 6.8 does everything that the .223 does only better and if you reload the cost difference is not significant.

If you want to shoot cheap get a dedicated .22 upper half. It will pay for itself before too long.
 
Stick with the 5,56. With the best bullets it will take any deer, or deer sized animal out to 200-250 yrds.
HECK NO! The few people that I have known to actualy find their deer after shooting them with a 5.56/223 have all said to keep the range short, even the strongest supporters say absolutly no further then 150yd, but idealy alot less then that. .22 cal bullets with VERY few exceptions have uber poor BC so retainled energy/speed just is not there at 200. I would go into my full terminal ballistics rant here, detailing the results of several ballistics gel tests......ect, but I have done that too many times this week, long stroy short the 223s modern bonded bullets get a C- on the killascale, they will do the trick at close range and ideal shooting angles, but marginal angles or long range they are a lost deer waiting to happen.
 
.223 not leagal on dear in Va. 6.8 has much better ballistics. Heard gov't developed 6.8 for combat, but too expensive to rearmor. Lent 6.8 to 13 yr old girl for her first deer. She had no problems with recoil. 6.8 was designed for ar config. 7.62x39 was not.
 
Stick with the 5,56. With the best bullets it will take any deer, or deer sized animal out to 200-250 yrds.

The 6.8 looks better on paper, but paper ballistics never killed anything.

The 5.56 (aka .223) hasn't killed much of anything bigger than varmints but it sure has wounded a hell of a lot of deer. Any rifle where people will say "sure it will kill deer all day. Just take neck shots" is not a cartridge choice I would pick. With the perfect broadside shot, and at acceptable range (a hell of a lot shorter than 200-250 yards) it will take down deer. But in all reality, how often are we presented with that "perfect" broadside-quartering away slightly, shot? And even with that perfect shot, short of a CNS hit, deer rarely drop within 100 yards. The 6.8spc on the other hand, has enough "ass" to take that slightly quartering to front of shoulder shot. I truly wish the .223 would be banned from deer hunting in ALL states. I just get sick and tired of running across wounded deer and having to use MY damn tag to take them down to end the poor things suffering. Lot of times the infection has spread so much, most all of the meat is inedible.
 
It won't let me repost the picture here, but if you look at my thread "The complex science of terminal ballistics" there is a ballistics gel test of a Fusion 223, to call it marginal for deer sized game is an understatment, even with modern bonded bullets the low SD small caliber clearly shows us it's key weakness, the first few inches of gel were pulverized and the deeper portion of the wound tract was so slim it was hardly visiable. This is the opposite of what you want, you don't want a big heaping pile of deer jello at the entrence and a small puncture through the vitals. There is also a picture of a 165gr 308 ballistic tip on there that is a fantastic example of top shelf performance, penatrates clean to aprox 2" and expands violently making traumatic damage all the way through a standard 16" block. No 223 test I have ever seen even comes close to that.
 
holy cow 68 you are restoring my faith in my 6.8! that is a cool thread. Looking forward to more good ammo and more mags! the performance test is cool too.
 
For some, 6.8 makes the AR15 a legal shooter in their state under their game laws. No contest there.

For live game hunters - where the big emphasis has been - 6.8 offers more power downrange at typical distances than 5.56. Simple ballistic fact. You'll find many who claim the 5.56 will do a good job on deer, either requires proper shot placement, and even I have seen deer shot with .308 who run a hundred yards. No cartridge is guaranteed a one shot stop. You want that, get a 8mm Remington Magnum, and you have a much higher percentage of doing it.

Bullet TYPE has a lot to do with it - cheap 7.62x39 is often Not Legal To Hunt, being cheap full metal jacket. Load it with decent expansion hunting bullets, and guess what, it's $20 a box. Any cartridge is, commercial ammo never sells for what cheap surplus does. Don't confuse the real issue.

You want cheap plinking ammo for gravel pits, don't buy a commercial caliber, duh. You want to shoot LIVE game in the field in the AR15, the 6.8 will get results without having to carry a gun two pounds heavier with 20 more pounds of recoil. As someone who DID carry those guns in the day, I find it significant. The AR doesn't wear me out the way a HK91 or 30-.06 bolt gun does. A 16" carbine in 6.8 is just a lot easier to use if you're already experienced with it.

There's the issue - 6.8 is fine, but being familiar with using the weapon in the typical "drive by" shooting that deer offer in the woods is more important. Focus on the overall use with the choice of caliber as one aspect of it, not the caliber as the focus and ignore how you and the gun interact to get the job done. Some are just more comfortable with bolts and levers, fine. They can decide to enhance their use with 6.8, too, where it fits in.

6.8 is a great improvement over 5.56 in knocking down 150 pound mammals, exactly what it was designed to do by Special Forces and the Army Marksmanship Unit. It's not the heaviest hitting, or the longest ranging, or uses the highest BC bullets, or the cheapest. But line up all the factors for the leading contenders, pro and con, and it's a top tier choice overall for the job - shooting live game in field conditions.

Where the detractors get any traction is nitpicking it outside that performance envelope, where they can "prove" their choice is better. At that point it all oranges against the apple, note carefully they target 6.8 as the contender, which means they see it as a tough competitor to knock down. Otherwise, the talk would be all about how their choice is better than 5.56.
 
Just buy a real .270 bolt gun for hunting and keep the AR as a .223 for HD. That upper is going to cost almost as much as a decent rifle. Plus you get another 500 fps.
 
6.8

I have a 6.8 upper and love it....I also have a 6.8 barrel for my Thompson Pro Hunter. Both shoot great with factory and the reloads I make. You can also go to the 6.8 forum and read up on this nice little round...Lots of guys are hunting with this caliber.

Tony P.
 
my favorite ammo is SSA 110 gr Sierra Prohunter TAC. I like the 110-115 gr loadings as long as they are max.
Mine has more kick than a model 77 220 swift so there is some power there.
 
I am still saving money to get into the 6.8 game. I think it makes sense for the hunting that I do. I also knoew some fellow LEO's that have stepped up to the 6.8 vs 5.56 for their patrol rifles. There has to be and advantage there for them to do that.
 
I would get a 18 or 20" barrel for deer hunting and such, if you think you might stretch it out to 250 or so and if your deer are big.

I put a 110 gr Accubond into the boiler room of a big 4X5 muley buck at 200 yds, resulting in a solid "THUMP" this load was not the TAC load so it was giving up at least 50 fps out of my 16" barrel. The deer did not go down but was humped up and moving slow. I topped the hill and put another one through his back bone at 100 yds. That one turned him belly up. I think it would have done better with the TAC loads or max reloads, and the extra 2-4" of barrel wouldn't hurt at all in this situation.
Another shot was a one shot kill on a doe at 35 yards placed right behind the shoulder again with the 110 gr. Accubond. She ran off as though nothing had happened, and I was surprised to see her piled up just over the hill not 75 feet away.
 
I have shot several deer with 223, max loads out of a 22" barrel, bolt gun. Shots were 100 yards or less and deer dropped right now. Can't remember the bullet now but I think one may have been a 55 gr. Vmax. just the fastest thing I could grab at the time. We couldn't find an exit wound at the time... I think it completely destroyed the innards. Anyway thats my experience with it. I would have no problem shooting a deer with a 223 60gr partition for example out to about 235 yards with my gun. shot a coyote at that range and judging by the damage a similar hit on a deer would have had the exact same result. DOA
 
Since the 6.8 has better terminal ballistics than the 5.56, why do people suggest going back to the 5.56 for HD?
 
Since the 6.8 has better terminal ballistics than the 5.56, why do people suggest going back to the 5.56 for HD

Skribs, there is a vast difference between home defense and hunting. Another thing is collateral damage. The .223 (5.56) will dump most of it's energy INTO a human at home defense ranges and is less likely to injure others. The 6.8spc, on the other hand, would probably not even slow down very much. This has been proven with MANY different tests. Because of the yawing effect of the 5.56 it will disintegrate at close range.
 
Since the 6.8 has better terminal ballistics than the 5.56, why do people suggest going back to the 5.56 for HD?
What people?

There is more to consider than terminal ballistics in an HD specific scenario anyway.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top