642 Club Part Deux

[jad0110]

Boatman, there are five things that come in my mind:
1)defective ammunitions (powder or primers);
2)too short firing pin;
3)excessive cylinder endshake (back-forward play);
4)weak mainspring;
5)internal frictions that slow down the hammer during its fall.
Hope this helps.

Best regards, 5-SHOTS

Could be anyone of those.

First, try a different box or brand of ammo. If that doesn't clear it up, the #1 is ruled out.

#3 is easy to check for yourself, just refer to Jim March's sticky at the top of the revolver forum.

If it isn't 1 or 3, I'd say the most likely culprit (especially if your gun was new/unfired) would be #2, followed by #5. I've heard of both happening in S&Ws (#2 most frequently). To test for #2, first make sure the gun is unloaded. 2nd, make sure the gun is unloaded. 3rd, make sure the gun is unloaded .

Next, drop a skinny plastic ink pen down the barrel and point the gun straight up in the air. Pull the trigger and observe how far the ink pin jumps up. If it completely clears the muzzle with ease, you are probably okay on #2. I've not done this test on a revolver in some time. Last time I did it was with my 686 4" and the pen almost hit the ceiling of the gun shop about 12 feet off the floor! If the pen can't clear the muzzle, you likely have a problem with the firing pin or mainspring. Call up S&W and get a return shipping label.

But #5 seems to be more frequent in newer guns that haven't broken in yet, and that just don't seem to be finished quite as nicely inside (rough spots) than guns from other eras. A friend of mine recently had this problem with a Taurus 605.

In the case of #5, you could get some snap caps (or use spent cases) and dry fire it a thousand times and see if that helps.

 

[jad0110]

Okay, I said some time ago that I'd post a pic of my 642, wearing a simple dab of gold Testors hobby paint on the tip of the front sight blade. Subtle, but quite effective for my eyes. I apologize for the crap picture quality, I'm not familiar with the manual adjustments on my wife's camera:










BTW, as of last weekend, my 642 has another bigger, older snub-nose brother to keep it company, in addition to it's other snub brother, a S&W 15-2 2".

S&W 66-1 (1980) 2.5", 357 Magnum:

 

[DAdams]

S&W 66-1 (1980) 2.5", 357 Magnum:

jad that is a beautiful lockless wonder!!Very nice indeed.

What sort of shoes are you going to put on the new baby?
It just begs for a pair of BBQ Stags.

 

[AStone]

There's an interesting thread on .38 snubnose here
that some of you might find of interest.

It's not about x42 per se, but they are being represented.

 

[jad0110]

jad that is a beautiful lockless wonder!!Very nice indeed.

What sort of shoes are you going to put on the new baby?
It just begs for a pair of BBQ Stags.

Thanks man!

I got all excited the other day when I saw a 2.5" Model 66 like mine in The Fugitive (the original with Harrison Ford). Couldn't tell if it was a P&R no dash or -1 though. Yes, I am a gun geek.

I've not bought a S&W with the lock in several years. I don't hate the lock as some do (tough to hate an inanimate object), I just rather it not be there. I don't mind MIM lockwork either (my 686 and 642 are so equipped), other than the fact that it doesn't look as nice as forged, case hardened or flash chromed. But buying used pre-lock S&Ws typically costs less than buying new, so that's how I ride .

Case in point, there is a guy here on THR (or maybe it was TFL) who bought a no lock used 442 for $340!

As for the "shoes", I'm actually just going to leave the well worn checkered walnut magnas in place and add on a Tyler T-Grip. This combo works pretty well for me on my carry K Frames and Ruger Police Service Six.

I've considered going this route on my 642. I've heard the round butt K frame T-Grip works pretty well on round butt J Frames, but I'm not 100% on that. I haven't done this yet because the stock uncle mike's boot grips work just fine. No need to fix it if it aint broke!

 

[theoneandonlyhoppy]

I got all excited the other day when I saw a 2.5" Model 66 like mine in The Fugitive (the original with Harrison Ford).

That's funny to us older members.

 

[patsue]

I bought this like new 442 today used at my local fun shop for $340

I knew it was a no lock of course which is why I jumped on it but the more I look at it, it has color case hardened trigger and no integral cylinder stop on the right side of the frame and it just says MOD 442 on the yoke. I have since learned that it isn't rated for +P ammo.

Would you carry it with +P ammo anyway but only shoot standard loads for practice?

The serial number is BRR9XXX.

Patrick

 

[308win]

David Jansen starred in the original made for TV series The Fugitive in the 60's. Harrison Ford is a reletive late comer.

 

[5-SHOTS]

jad0110 and patsue: congratulations, what a purchases!
jad0110: I’ve seen this same model in the movie “The Gauntlet” with Clint Eastwood. The gun is shown SEVERAL times during this movie.
patsue: your idea to shot standard load for practice and +P for carry is OK. Some reasonable +P loads from your 442 are not going to wear it out.

And now a pic of the Colt that my father has given to me. OK, it is not a snub but it is BEAUTIFUL, ain’t it?


Best regards, 5-SHOTS.

 

[DAdams]

Ammo Up

ammotogo has a good selection of our favorite Plus P 38 spl Plus P including the SGDFSB 135 gr
(PN23921) and Both COR BON DPX and Regular COR BON in 110 gr in addition also Federal HS all decent prices for carry rounds.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/38-special-hollow-point-ammo

Patsue-

Welcome that is a very nice specimen of a lockless 442 and better yet at a jaw dropping price. I am not going to comment on shooting Plus P in it. You should call S&W customer service or go to the website under Customer Service and see what you can find about a limited diet of Plus P.

Buffalo Bore makes some nice personal defense standard pressure .38 spl but loaded to SAAMI max.

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Ammo - 158 gr. Soft Lead SWC-HC (850fps/M.E. 253 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Due to customer demand, we've developed this defensive 38SPL ammo. Our customers wanted some devastating 38SPL loads that would fill the following criteria.

1. It won't hurt older/fragile/alloy revolvers. (Non +P)
2. Is effective as a "fight stopper" through the use of proper bullets.
3. Is more powerful than typical/standard, weak 38SPL ammo.
4. Generate much less recoil than our +P 38SPL ammo.
5. Is flash suppressed.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=110

My wife's 642 is loaded with the 158 gr soft cast. 20C or you could do the classic hardcast or their JHP.

 

[DAdams]

5-Shots I am going to take exception to your statement...

patsue: your idea to shot standard load for practice and

+P for carry is OK

. Some reasonable +P loads from your 442 are not going to wear it out.

It has nothing to do with wearing it out, it has everything to do with handgun safety.


Patsue-

The following is lifted directly from the general S&W Manuals....
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/S&W_Revolver_Manual.pdf
Pages 9-13

You are responsible for selecting
ammunition that meets
industry standards and is appropriate
in type and caliber for this
firearm.
Never use a cartridge not specifically designated for use in your
firearm. The wrong type of ammunition may exceed the capability
of your firearm and may damage or even rupture your firearm

In some cases, a round of ammunition not specified on your
firearm may fit into the chamber. Firing ammunition not specified
on your firearm may cause it to rupture and cause serious injury
or death to you or others.

A firearm and ammunition are a system and must work together.
There are different types of ammunition for different types of
firearms. Your firearm has been designed for ammunition of a
specific type and a specific gauge or caliber. It is important to
select the proper ammunition for your firearm.

AMMUNITION CONT’D
WARNING: NEVER USE CARTRIDGES OTHER THAN
THOSE DESIGNATED BY THE MARKING ON THE
BARREL. DOING SO CAN RESULT IN DANGEROUSLY
HIGH PRESSURES THAT MAY DAMAGE THE FIREARM AND
POSSIBLY CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY TO YOURSELF AND
OTHERS.

Enough Said. At Ease.

 

[AStone]

Since we here in the club are into weapons that serve mainly for UCP ("up close and personal"),
I thought I'd share my latest project with you: a new thread about daggers and boot knives.

Of course, my 642 will remain my primary UCP weapon. But it's nice to have choices.

If you have an interest in such narrow, double-edged pointy things, then y'all come, ya' hear?

 

[patsue]

What would be the best non +P factory load that is normally available?

Patrick

 

[jt1]

patsue - Congrats on the 442 no dash...just beautiful...as we have been all over the ammo thing a few times I have come to the point where I'm just not that concerned about it anymore. While both my x42's are dash 2's most of the time nowadays you will find them stuffed with standard pressure rounds. I personally like the Buffalo Bore 20C but I would be just fine with any other quality hollow point ammo. I am still of the mind that the heavier bullets are the way to go and will always take the 158gr if given the choice. I concur with DA on the +P issue, what you might gain is probably not worth the risk, as small as it might be. One of my associates uses 148gr wadcutters for everything, including carry ammo in his backup 642, while this may be a bit unconventional, I have developed a fair amount of respect for this individuals skill and judgment and I think it just goes to show there is really no holy grail when it comes to carry ammo. I can't think of any.38 special round that I would care to be on the non-primer end of...

jad - Sweet mod 66..I hate you...

Nem - As far as UCP weapons are concerned, you are right on the money...actually there are many scenarios where the blade is superior to the gun. In extreme CQC when you have lost situational awareness the knife may be faster to deploy and is just as effective, sometimes more so. The importance of being physically fit and practiced in unarmed combat is sometimes (OK, most of the time) not a priority to a lot of concealed carry folks who get into the mindset that the gun is the goto weapon of choice. Many times, if not most times it will be the last. You stand a very good chance of having to fight your way clear to deploy a primary or secondary weapon and that is why it is always good to be...aware...

 

[5-SHOTS]

DAdams: thanks, I know gun safety rules quite well. This didn’t stop me to use common sense in my last statement. So I'll stick with it because I've said nothing new or original (according to what S&W answers to similar questions) and above all I've NOT said to do anything that could be dangerous or unsafe for patsue's hands or gun. Infact my statement is more restrictive than many "factory" answers about guns supposed to be not +P rated.
So I don't undestand your exception.

Best regards, 5-SHOTS

 

[308win]

If you shot an occasional +p round in your 442 it probably isn't going to disintegrate in your hand nor will the frame stretch to the point that the cylinder falls to the ground. That said, I agree with DA; it is not something I would consciously do.

 

[Stainz]

As my carpal tunnel problems and early arthritis symptons progress, I find myself migrating to milder shooting loads. The 296, a big brother to the 642 in .44 Special, gets infrequent range time with it's 200gr Gold Dots. Yesterday found me popping away with my 642 loaded with my 125gr LRNFP loads, the only Remi R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWCs I had with me being the five that get 'carried'.

The 642 was discharged several times at the small rebounding steel plates at 12yd. Sadly, I never could get that sixth plate... but, at least, even sped up, I could manage five for five regularly. The little beast is accurate. My advice for 'recoil sensitive' folks has been the 148gr LWC - starts out with a .357" hole. It may be time to heed my own advice... a bit of eatting crow or proper retribution? Recall that I am a retired college instructor... ages of being told we always suggest 'do as I say, not as I do' as that retribution. Naw, the 148gr wadcutter is a decent protective round. I have hundreds of those +P 'FBI loads' - and they also fit my bedside 4" 64 quite well.

I also like knives - carry a Benchmade of one kind or another most days. Great 'friend' when you need it... it's hard to open that new package - or bill - with a firearm. Muzzle blast in my bag-o-candy isn't fun, either. I'm more likely to use my EDC flashlight, either a Surefire E1b 'Backup' or E2D LED 'Defender', in defending myself. Oddly - 24/7 - if that flashlight is clipped to my left pocket, either the 642 or 296 is in a Mika pocket holder in my right one. It'll be there in an hour - when I am at the grocer's - getting my 5% off for grey hair.

Odd how we rationalize. I've been drooling over a new for 2010 S&W PC offering - SKU #170133 - a 2 5/8" 627 - x* .357 Magnum - or those +P 'FBI loads' for me. I told the CFO it would be a great 'carry' piece. yeah, right. MSRP $1,185 - weight: 37.6 oz! It is the closest thing to a new run of the infamous 'Bloodwork' gun - the cult classic that sells for $2.5k used! I'd sell my 5" JM PC627 V-Comp to get it - but why? Eastwood's character in that movie wasn't known for his marksmanship with that gun - a then short run as the 'UDR' (Ultimate Defensive Revolver). I think I already have the 'UDR' - my 642! Still, I want that snubby 627. Probably time for a little more Sheryl Crowe and 'it's not getting what you want - it's wanting what you have'.

Stainz

 

[joe_security]

Here is a question for the j-frame experts. I examined a 360SC, prelock scandium titanium .38 spl. (with hammer) offered for sale. I noticed that the coil spring that powers the hammer appears to be about the same as would be found in a cheap ball point pen. The plastic thingy that seats the spring ? Has anyone had issues with these parts ? I much prefer my very old Model 36 to this set up. And how about a good jacketed non +p round for SD ? I know that lead bullets are a no go for these Airlite revolvers.

 

[5-SHOTS]

joe security: if it is in good shape & function and the price is right I’ll buy it. I don’t now how many no lock 360SC were built but I think it is a not common model. And it is no longer made! You can replace the mainspring with a standard Wolff or Wilson Combat or a factory S&W if you don’t like it. The other plastic part you don’t like is the “mainspring swivel” (made of steel in older models). I don’t think it is that difficult to find a steel one but I don’t know if it fits in recent models (I think yes).

Best regards, 5-SHOTS

 

[DAdams]

5-Shots

So I don't undestand your exception.

Since you insist....

Your advice is so patently wrong and dangerous I hesitate any further comment or an attempt to sway your malaligned opinion/judgement.

patsue: your idea to shot standard load for practice and

+P for carry is OK

AMMUNITION CONT’D
WARNING: NEVER USE CARTRIDGES OTHER THAN
THOSE DESIGNATED BY THE MARKING ON THE
BARREL. DOING SO CAN RESULT IN DANGEROUSLY
HIGH PRESSURES THAT MAY DAMAGE THE FIREARM AND
POSSIBLY CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY TO YOURSELF AND
OTHERS.

I am not certain what it is about Smith and Wesson's statement you don't understand?

Do what you will to yourself and your equipment, just don't defy the Manufacturer's recommendation and advise negligence to someone to the contrary in an open Forum that where-in your advice is NOT recommended is reckless and at the expense of potential

THAT MAY DAMAGE THE FIREARM AND
POSSIBLY CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY TO YOURSELF AND
OTHERS.

 

[5-SHOTS]

So folks, don’t belive S&W’s e-mails when they say: “It’s OK to shot +P in your gun even if it is not stamped on the barrel” or “Using +P in your firearm is fine since you don’t put a steady diet in it”. Even the old Colt Cobra (according to Colt’s e-mails) can stand hundred rounds of +P. Not to mention Charter Arms’ e-mails about old Undercovers. So folks that reports these e-mails are liers.
Only DAdams’s Warnings Bible tells you the truth.
Sorry patsue if I’ve desired to see your hands exploding. I’m an irresponsible.

Now I’m sure it was a personal attack.


Best regards, 5-SHOTS.

 

[jad0110]

Quote:
I got all excited the other day when I saw a 2.5" Model 66 like mine in The Fugitive (the original with Harrison Ford).

That's funny to us older members.

Ahh, good catch!

 

[DAdams]

So folks, don’t belive S&W’s e-mails when they say: “It’s OK to shot +P in your gun even if it is not stamped on the barrel” or “Using +P in your firearm is fine since you don’t put a steady diet in it”. Even the old Colt Cobra (according to Colt’s e-mails) can stand hundred rounds of +P. Not to mention Charter Arms’ e-mails about old Undercovers. So folks that reports these e-mails are liers.
Only DAdams’s Warnings Bible tells you the truth.
Sorry patsue if I’ve desired to see your hands exploding. I’m an irresponsible.

Now I’m sure it was a personal attack.

Best regards, 5-SHOTS.

Don't take it personally as certainly none was intended. I would have put forth the same commentary to any contributor. We are happy to have you here and welcome your input, right or wrong.

So folks, don’t belive S&W’s e-mails when they say: “It’s OK to shot +P in your gun even if it is not stamped on the barrel”

Please post a link that points the way to the S&W website where this is stated.

5-Shots, why don't you start a related thread in a General Handgun Area or Handguns, Revolvers on THR, I would like to see the responses as I have heard that there are revolvers that can tolerate a limited diet of "non-rated" ammunition. Better yet I would like to see a statement of fact veryifing it (the approved use of non-rated ammunition) published by an Officer of said Corporation or their Legal Department. Note heresay from someone who has (claimed to have) run a cylinder full through and called it a significant test making it safe doesn't hold much water in my book.

 

[DAdams]

UCP

Nem Expoundeth...

If you have an interest in such narrow, double-edged pointy things, then y'all come, ya' hear?

I gave these out as stocking stuffers this year. Buck Smidgen.

They wear nicely around the neck (under the shirt of course) with a small flashlight. EDC Bling.



When your pockets are already full of too much survival crap.

 

[jad0110]

What would be the best non +P factory load that is normally available?

jt1 pretty much nailed in post # 3714. If I had a .38 that was only rated for standard pressure, I'd carry something like the 158 LSCWHP from Buffalo Bore or a 148 grain wadcutter load. The latter is especially worthwhile if you are recoil sensitive. And IIRC, Federal has started making their very well regarded 125 grain standard pressure Nyclad line again, so that would be another excellent choice.

One caveat: I wouldn't carry wadcutters as a reload, particularly with a speedloader. Those little buggers are a pain in the butt to line up with the chambers.

So folks, don’t belive S&W’s e-mails when they say: “It’s OK to shot +P in your gun even if it is not stamped on the barrel”

I wonder if perhaps S&W was speaking of early x42-1s which WERE +P rated, but were not stamped as such on the barrel. Later -1s and all -2s are stamped +P. Either that, or an individual S&W employee was giving his personal opinion. I can't see S&W (the Company), and their team of lawyers taking a position like that. But stranger things have happened.

Keep in mind too that the no dash x42s are NOT based on the current "Magnum" J-Frame. The visual differences are very suttle, but they are there. Stucturally, the Magnum J Frames (-1 and -2 x42s) are measurably stronger than the standard J Frames.