7.62x39 ammo

[Malice]

The Saiga I got at the beginning of the month is turning out to be a hungry little rascal, and I feel bad feeding it the same thing all the time.

I bought 1k rounds of Wolf HP ammo for it and thats what I have been shooting. Works fine for me, especialy at the short range.

I have not gotten a chance to take it to the long range yet, but I will soon.

I got a gift certificate to Academy so with it I picked up some range supplies and 2 boxes of Federal American Eagle FMJ ammo for $7 a box. This is a lot compared to the Wolf stuff for $2.30 a box, but it certainly gleams nicely and I assume it will shoot better. Its brass cased instead of steel, made in the USofA, etc. I plan to shoot it at the long range as I expect it will give me better accuracy.

What other ammo choices do I have? There was some other Russian ammo, I think Branul or somthing, at Academy. FMJ stuff, like ~3$ a box or somthing. Is this better than Wolf? Does the real surplus mil-spec stuff shoot better?

Thanks for the info.

 

[Feanaro]

Is this better than Wolf?

Best I can tell they might as well be the same thing. But I haven't shot much for comparison.

Does the real surplus mil-spec stuff shoot better?

All the "mil-spec" 7.62x39 I have heard of is corrosive. Not a problem when other ammo is significantly more but Wolf/Barnaul is already cheap. But I'd like to hear the answer to this too.

 

[NMshooter]

Those Wolf "hollow points" are lead core FMJ with the tips cut off so they could call them "sporting ammunition". Not sure why they did that. Actual M1943 ball is steel core, cheaper to make that way, and does not seem to be more accurate. Barnaul is another Russian ammo manufacturer. Try shooting all the cheap stuff first to see what shoots best.

 

[Malice]

Could you clarify that about Wolf HP being FMJ with the tips cut off?

What about that American Eagle stuff I bought, and other finer American made ammo?

 

[railroader]

I personally like barnaul but you can get cheap brass cased ammo here. http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html I bought a case, it's good accurate ammo. Mark

 

[saul]

Feanaro,
I believe that there is a distinction between Mil Spec russian Ammo and Military Surplus 7.62x39 ammo. Military Surplus available now days is often Romanian or Hungarian made in the 80s or earlier and always corrosive.

The Mil Spec russian ammo sold at websites like Aimsurplus and Cheaper Than Dirt in the 700 rounds tins is new production from the Ulynovsk Factory in Russia. It should not be corrosive. Ulynovsk and Sapsan are also commercial brands from this factory, but they are very rare in the U.S.

 

[saul]

Malice,

Here is what I have gathered about imported 7.62x39 ammo. (I will admit up front that most of this information comes from other posts as I have not shot all of this ammo myself.)

Barnaul - (Russian) Makes Barnaul, RAM, Monarch, and is supposed to be the main manufacturer of the "Bear" brand of ammo. Most who have shot Barnaul and "Bear" side by side, put forth the theory that
"Bear" is put together of componants that weren't good enough to wear the Barnaul name. Barnaul appears to be the top dog among the Russian makers and they may all at different times buy componants from Barnaul.
Tula - (Russian) Makes Wolf ammo.
Ulyanovsk - (Russian) makes Ulyanovsk, Sapsan and the Mil Spec ammo sealed in the tin. May also have a hand in "Bear" brand.
Novosibirsk - (Russian) makes LVE brand ammo and may also have a hand in "Bear" brand.
Vympel - (Russian) Golden Tiger brand.

Zimbabwe Defense Industries - (Zimbabwe) Cheetah Brand.

 

[dfaugh]

have used

Wolf, Barnaul and Silver Bear (which I think is same as/made by Barnaul, even the boxes looked similar.) In my SKSs there was no noticable difference in accuracy(which was pretty lousy). They're a bit "dirty" (lots of carbon(?)in the bore, but it cleans easy. Had one stovepipe with Barnaul HP, but think that was a fluke, otherwise reliable for several hundred rounds(mostly Wolf). The Winchester stuff is WAY more accurate, tho, at least in my guns. Can get the Wolf for under/around $2 a box at gun shows around here, hard to beat for plinking...

 

[Feanaro]

Saul, thanks for the clarification. I always thought the sardine/spam canned stuff was real surplus.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Both Wolf and Barnaul work for me. My SKS's eat it up, and I don't have to pick up the 'brass'.

 

[saul]

Feanaro,

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Miliary_Spec__Russian_7_62x39_.html

Above is a link to the Mil Spec I believe is from Ulynovsk. There are blue and white boxes inside. Wolf has a spam can too, believe it or not.

http://www.ammoman.com/images/Yugo029.jpg
http://www.ammoman.com/images/Yugo030.jpg

Above are links to pictures of the Yugo surplus packaging. It has a sealed metal box worked into the shipper as well, but they are different enough that hopefully no one would confuse them.

 

[NMshooter]

Now that I think about it, I don't remember my source for that part about the tips of Wolf bullets being cut off. I may be wrong. There seems to be several different bullet weights available, you may want to try them out to see what your rifle likes.

Lapua brass cased ammo is quite nice, but expensive and difficult to find locally. Try the cheap stuff first.

 

[plevniak]

Just a note on ethe Romanian surplus

Yes it is corosive. But, it is brass cased and shoots very well. It also doesn't stink like the wolf brand ammo does. I clean the gun the same day I shoot it and I have not noticed any problems. It is more expensive than wolf as well. I think I paid about 10 cents a round when I bought a case.

Out of a whole case, I had no FTF or FTE problems. I've bought my second case so I guess that is an endorsement.

 

[JA]

The current imported Russian ammo in the sealed cans is commerical production ammo. The only thing about it that is mil spec is it is in a mil spec sealed can.
Wolf is a trademark owned by Tula Cartridge Works and only that brand ammo has been imported in the last several years. The pre Wolf ammo was imported under the TCW brand.

Bear Line of Ammunition from Russia

Barnaul Manufactured Bear Ammunition

.223 Hollow Point SILVER BEAR
. 223 Soft Point SILVER BEAR
. 30-06 Soft Point SILVER BEAR
.3006 FMJ SILVER BEAR
7.62x39 FMJ SILVER BEAR
76.2x39 Hollow Point SILVER BEAR
7.62x39 Soft Point SILVER BEAR
7.62x54 Soft Point SILVER BEAR
7.62x54 FMJ SILVER BEAR
.308 Soft Point SILVER BEAR
.308 FMJ SILVER BEAR
5.45x39 FMJ SILVER BEAR

.223 Hollow Point BROWN BEAR
.223 Soft Point BROWN BEAR
7.62x39 Hollow Point BROWN BEAR
7.62x39 FMJ BROWN BEAR
7.62x39 Soft Point BROWN BEAR
7.62x54 FMJ BROWN BEAR
7.62x54Soft Point BROWN BEAR

.410 Shot SILVER BEAR

.223 Hollow Point GOLDEN BEAR
.223 Soft Point GOLDEN BEAR
7.62x39 FMJ GOLDEN BEAR
7.62x39 Hollow Point GOLDEN BEAR
7.62x39 Soft Point GOLDEN BEAR


Ulyanovsk Manufactured Bear Ammunition

.223 Hollow Point SILVER BEAR
.223 Mil-Spec SILVER BEAR
7.62 “Effect†(nipple) SILVER BEAR
.40 S&W SILVER BEAR
. 40 S&W 180 gr. FMJ SILVER BEAR
. 40 S&W 180 gr HP SILVER BEAR
. 45 Hollow Point SILVER BEAR
. 45 FMJ SILVER BEAR
. 45 Mil-Spec SILVER BEAR

7.6239 Mil-Spec BROWN BEAR


Novosibirsk Manufactured Bear Ammunition

9x19 FMJ SILVER BEAR
9x19 Hollow Point SILVER BEAR
9x19 115 gr. HP SILVER BEAR
9x17 FMJ SILVER BEAR
9x17 Hollow Point SILVER BEAR
9x18 FMJ SILVER BEAR
9x18 Hollow Point SILVER BEAR

9x19 FMJ BROWN BEAR
9x19 Hollow Point BROWN BEAR
9x19 115 gr. HP BROWN BEAR
9x17 FMJ BROWN BEAR
9x17 Hollow Point BROWN BEAR
9x18 FMJ BROWN BEAR
9x18 Hollow Point BROWN BEAR

 

[LiquidTension]

Here's an accuracy test with many different brands. I've been looking for Barnaul ammo since I'm down to 4 boxes, but haven't been able to find any. Midway even took it off their site (the 7.62x39 anyway).

 

[railroader]

Dan's ammo has the barnaul hollow points back in stock. http://www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp Mark

 

[goon]

I have shot some of the Ulyanovsk stuff and then did not clean my AK for a day as a test. I checked it every few hours to make sure there was no corrosion and there wasn't so I am about 99% sure that it is noncorrosive.

I shot Barnaul "noncorrosive" ammunition for awhile in the SAR-1 I used to have. Since it was "noncorrosive" I didn't clean it right away or really even worry about it. I was planning to shoot it again later that week anyhow. A few days later I had it stripped down cleaning it and I noticed fuzzy red rust on the inside of the gas block and gas tube. My brother has also reported a similar situation with Wolf 7.62x54R.
For the most part I haven't noticed this problem with the cheap ammo. I think that maybe some older corrosive primers got tossed in during production with these couple of problems. Still though, I am always a little leery when I shoot this stuff. I always clean my M-39 with a touch of Windex just to be sure and I always check the AK the next day if I don't clean it right away.

 

[NMshooter]

Be careful with ammonia and chrome lined barrels. The ammonia can remove some of the lining.

 

[Sunray]

"...I assume it will shoot better..." Not if your barrel measures .311" and the ammo .308". Most US made 7.62 x 39 uses .308 bullets. The Eastern Block surplus uses .311" bullets. Don't know what Wolf uses.

 

[goon]

NMshooter - Is there something else I can use instead of an ammonia based cleaner to deal with corrosive ammo? I like to shoot the old comblock rounds and I want to get a mauser before too long too so I am going to have to keep dealing with this.

 

[Feanaro]

Goon: Water. Corrosive ammo basically puts salt(potassium chloride, not sodium chloride aka table salt) in the barrel. This attracts moisture and creates a nasty corrosive film. But the salt is water soluble. I like to use hot, or even boiling water(obviously you should be careful) if possible. Evaporates faster. Cold water works too. Either way, make sure you run some dry patches through and a rust inhibitor wouldn't hurt either.