7yr old wants Uncle WK to take him deer hunting

[WestKentucky]

Big changes in my world today. Been talking my sis into letting me teach my nephew to shoot a 22 rifle...no dice. Today I get as uprising text from her asking me to take him hunting on youth hunt weekend...and not with him carrying a bbgun to pester the deer with. She wants the full blown shoot, kill, gut, butcher, eat process on the boy. His other uncle (my best friend) got the same text messages on the turkey hunting trip. For that he can go 410 and get them close, but I'm scratching my head on finding a Crickett sized rifle that won't give him a recoil fear that scares him off from hunting. Pretty much a sure thing he can't operate a full size gun either...so I'm at a bit of a loss. I think even a .243 in that light of a gun is going to be a bruiser. The boy is only 55 or 60 pounds...any suggestions on a cheap route for the youngster? 410 slug is my only realistic option, or my contender 44 with a shoulder stock but I'm afraid even that's too much.
Guns we have to pick from...compiled list of me, my dad, and friends I can borrow from...
Marlin:336 too heavy for him
Rem700 .270 scoped and too big, too much recoil
Contender 44mag carbine (light reloads are possible)
Marlin 62 Levermatic .256winmag (a few factory rounds left plus reloads)
410 single shot (full)
410 bolt action (full)
20ga youth (would pound him hard with slugs)
Ruger American .308...way too much recoil
.223 ARs
M1 carbine

I'm kinda at a loss. I want him to enjoy it but I can't figure out how to make it work. I may have to buy a gun but I'm not coming up with anything that way either. 300blk seems a great choice but in a bolt or single shot? I have only seen them in an AR. Please suggest something if you can come up with anything. I would love to do a .357 rifle but sadly I don't have one or access to one I could borrow.
Price range is low too. 250 or less for sure.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Hmm, bargain bin 300BLK barrel? Could do the .223 with proper shot placement, depending on the size of your local deer, probably could in Alabama. Depending on the twist rate of the .223 you might could get into 75+ grain loads.

Good luck, kids need more people like you.

 

[back40]

7 years old and no shooting experience? seems like perhaps the .22 and squirrel hunting are in order prior to letting the boy go after deer. proper shot placement can't be a sure thing with a seven year old, and anything that'll give you leeway with shot placement will likely shake him up.

best of luck. it's good his mom is coming around.

 

[WestKentucky]

The deer in Kentucky aren't massive but bigger bodied than those further south. The m1 carbine idea is sounding better the more I think of it. I will start the begging and borrowing process soon if no better ideas emerge, and if I can't locate a shoulder stock and contender barrel in an acceptable length and caliber.

 

[osprey176]

I started my oldest son hunting at 8 with a short stocked and short barreled 20 gauge autoloading shotgun. Having a stock that fits is very important to a small shooter. Of your choices,the AR with Partitions or Barnes TSX's would do well. The light loaded Contender with a youth sized stock is another good choice. Use 180 gr bullets and starting loads. Mostly,let the boy shoot and get comfortable using the chosen weapon well before the season starts. Let him practice on reactive targets so he can see when he hits,and use a large paper deer target to show him where to aim at an animal. Make it fun and you will have a hunting buddy for life.

 

[WestKentucky]

Osprey, I'm with you. My contender loads are already light for the 44 so that seems most realistic but it is still a thumper. I may tear a few down and load mid-range 44spl rounds and give that a try. They are loaded with 231 so there's room to reduce the load. Just gotta find or make a stock. Last time I looked they weren't cheap but were easily attainable.

 

[Schutzen]

7 yr old NON-Shooter

I'm afraid I would have to tell there is no way he carries a gun since he has no experience with them. They I would tell he I would be glad to take him deer hunting as an observer and during the coming year I would teach him how to shoot. Then next year we could go hunting together.

When I taught my sons how to hunt, they carried rifles and I carried a revolver. They did the shooting I and made sure everyone was safe. The pistol was solely in case we needed a follow up shot. It was never needed.

 

[taliv]

sounds like a good opportunity to teach him (and maybe his mother) some patience.

spend a year on gun and hunter safety, marksmanship, etc. let him go with you and field dress/butcher/eat the one you kill.

work on squirrels and rabbit for a while.

 

[WestKentucky]

Schnitzel I would normally agree but his mother told him I was taking him before asking me. So he is going wild at the thought of it. He has read the Kentucky hunting pamphlet cover to cover 3 times and is calling asking questions on everything from trapping beavers to registering for the elk lottery. I'm going to make something happen. The kid is pretty good with a red Ryder so I feel a range trip with a 22 coming quick, then another trip or three with the deer getter. I will have my 44 revolver on me and I plan to hunt my bow stand so range is limited to about 40 yards.

 

[WestKentucky]

And if he can't make a shot then he doesn't go... But there's plenty of sparrows and grasshoppers that think the kid can make a good shot. I just need to outfit him

 

[Sam1911]

This is a great opportunity and good news for your family!

Unfortunately, no shooting experience would be a big "whoah there, hoss!" for me. With a buck or doe in front of you is a heck of a time to try and learn the fundamentals.

Having said that (which I'm sure you'd already thought of), I'd say you have a great trainer already in that .44! Simple, decent trigger. At 7 my daughter was shooting mid-range .44 Specials out of my 629. I'm quite sure your nephew can handle stout .44 Specials or even light mags out of a Contender carbine. Shouldn't be much to that at all all unless you TRY to bruise him with the big H110 mag loads.

Load up a few hundred and get him a handful of Saturday mornings at the range. He'll love it, it will be as easy on him as you feel the need to make it. You could be loading 180 gr. cast lead at 500 fps to start out with, and then move him up to some 240 gr. Keith wadcutters at 900-1,000 closer to hunting season. Still is going to put a bigger smile on his face than a bruise on his shoulder!

If he can put a dozen into an 8" pie plate at 50 yards by the start of the season, from some realistic firing positions, he's ready to go. (Just keep the shots within his range.) If he's still not proficient with a rifle by then, he can go as your assistant and shoot next year.

If I can be so bold as to recommend how to deal with family? I'd tell him that he's got to practice up and pass the shooting test, and I'd tell him in his mother's presence. That way, if she's going to still be a roadblock to range trips, it will be quite clear that you're being the reasonable/ethical one.

 

[Sam1911]

As a backup, there are some decent choices for .410 slugs, but who knows how your guns will pattern with them.

The .44 on the other hand, is a PERFECT fit.

 

[swampcrawler]

I killed my first one at 7 with a youth model H&R 20 Guage.

Admittedly I'm about 2.5 times the size if a normal human.

And i had been following my daddy around in the woods literally sense I could walk and killing squirrels with my Benjamin sense I could pump it up.

Given the current situation unless you can get the kid shooting well enough to lace a tiny little youth appropriate bullet through something important in the month or two before season opener.... I dunno.

 

[Skylerbone]

$91 for a Flextech stock to mate to your Encore would be the way I'd go. My own son, a good sized 10 yr. old is persistently gunshy with a .410 single shooting heavy field loads but has no qualms about shooting grandpa's Pro Hunter ML with 100 grains and a 250 gr. HP. That stock just ends recoil. http://www.eabco.com/encore3.html#FactoryStocks.

Agreed on practice first and a good talk about why we hunt and when we take the shot before he takes to the woods. Great news that he's eager to learn and that his mother is coming around.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

My 13 year old nephew killed a nice big 8 point Kansas buck when he was 8 years old. He took the shot at 100+ yards with a 7mm-08 Ruger, using reduced recoil Hornady ammo http://www.midwayusa.com/product/22...-120-grain-sst-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding But he's no runt (not implying that your nephew is) and he had a decent bit of shooting experience for a kid his age. But you can certainly be surprised by what a youngster can do with a little guidance.

I see 4 options that I would consider letting a kid use. That Marlin .30-30 with Hornady reduced loads (or reduced recoil handloads). The .410 w/ slugs. The .44mag with slightly reduced loads. Or the .308 Ruger w/ Hornady Lite ammo (or reduced handloads). Now personally I would prefer to avoid the .410. The .30-30 might be heavy for him, but the weight will absorb some recoil and holding it up to fire one shot at a deer doesn't take too much strength, a shooting rest or stick would also be useful. The Ruger might not be a bad option either. I believe Ruger makes youth stocks for them with a 12.5" length of pull. Maybe look into getting one of those youth/compact stocks and adding some weight inside of it to help take recoil, and use Hornady Lite or reduced handloads. Then there's your Contender if you can find a suitable stock for a reasonable price. I would weigh those options and see what you think is best. Any way you decide to go a good shooting stick or some kind of rest will probably help him make a good shot.

But like others have said, make sure he gets adequate practice. Whether that means waiting until next year to hunt or taking him this year, none of us can make that decision for you.

 

[Tactical Lever]

I think the .44 mag Contender sounds like the winner here. With moderate velocity loads it'll be pretty gentle even in a light gun.

I passed a fairly small young woman my Marlin Guide Gun, and even at about 100 lbs. she was not shook up by it. Even with the straight grip stock (lots of drop at comb), and the hard recoil pad. The load was the Remington factory 405 gr. load, only shooting about 1350 fps.

I would probably use a decent hunting bullet in 240 gr. (jacketed or a good flatnose cast), and propel it at 1100 fps. Should not be too noisy, and recoil impulse will be slow, yet it still has a good bit of momentum to punch through a deer.

The harder parts will be getting the gun to fit him. Might want to cut down a butt stock. And when he grows a little, a thicker recoil pad can be fitted. I have also seen some people save the wood, and graft it back on again later.

I think that starting him off on small game is the way to go also, but you know your nephew better than I. Of course maybe the year, and the seasons are long enough for both?

 

[Davek1977]

I'd personally suggest the AR-15, even in .223, over the .30 carbine route. There are bullets DESIGNED for deer hunting with the .223, with the .30 carbine, the options aren't all that great. I think the .223 is the best combination of low recoil, easy to handle, easy to shoot, while still be adaquet for the game pursued. That said, I think a year of marksmanship training and education should come first. I had 3 years of shooting under my belt before I could legally hunt deer. I'd been on several rabbit and upland game hunts, and went deer hunting two years as an observer before getting my own license and taking my first deer.

 

[41 Mag]

Your way late in the game getting things rolling for him IMO. That said I would go with the 44 low to mid power loads using bullets from 200 - 240grs working up as he can handle it.

I would explain things up front and accurately that it might kick, but that is simply part of it. No way around it all.

At the ripe age of 3yrs and a couple of months, my oldest grandson got it in his head he wanted to shoot him a hog. I sort of laughed it off the first day he brought it up, but after several weeks of him "practicing" with his pop gun and other things like building blinds and such, I sort of started to take him seriously. The only thing I had remotely close enough to fitting him was my Ruger Compact in .308. So with the Hodgdon reduced loads using some 125gr bullets, and away we went.

As mentioned somewhere above, the initial shot(s) teared him up pretty good, but the stubborn red headed boy hung in there. After two weekends of only shooting 5 rounds per day, he was shooting up everything I could load for him. We did however have months ahead of us to practice though, but he got good enough to put them where they needed to be very quickly, so most of it was repetitive safety things and shooting at different angles, and ranges out to 75yds.

As you can see below, things weren't perfect for him with the Ruger, but he made it work for him. Two weeks before his 4th birthday, he made a perfect shot on that hog and hasn't let up since.

Like you mentioned we also hunted out of a two person bow stand that I only set up with one section of ladder. We were mainly looking straight over to a feeder I had hung up which was about 50yds away. The stand was him mom's stipulation just in case the hog got it in its head to come see us on a personal note, or if there was a big pack of them she didn't want him on the ground when they decided to leave out.

My stipulation was that he had to hold the rifle, aim it, work the bolt and safety all on his own before I would even consider taking him out. All of which he had to practice over and over again until it was ingrained in his thought process. Like I mentioned he is almost 13 now and will snug up behind anything I own no matte the caliber, and has reached out past 250yds on a couple of hogs with the .270 I am pushing him to use. Thing is he decided to shoot my 7mm STW not long ago and after the shot he turned around with this real evil looking smile on his face. Something akin to the one my daughter had long before she took my 25-06 away from me.

I wish you the best of luck and hope the loads you come up with work to a T. There is nothing in the world that loads you up with excitement and pride like being there for that first shot and seeing that critter hit the dirt just like you planned.

 

[docsleepy]

Lots of great advice here. Safety must be a prime concern. I did a marksmanship course at our church recently, had kids from five through 18 involved, 22 rifles. Despite begging the dads to mentor their kids, the very youngest kid kept putting bullets through trees, leaves, ground in front of the target, all over. Never really hit the target except by luck.

After sending dad home with a laser pointer, and trying every other trick I could think of ,and the kids still put bullets in all directions, I just told them that it wasn't safe to have him continue firing.

Now let me explain that we were shooting at a good size burn, with 3 miles of uninhabited swamp behind it.

I also learned how important the stock went is, length of pull. These kids absolutely could not hold the gun properly. I made a one by four cutout of a stock and drilled different trigger holes, and measured with the correct distance was for this size kid. Had them hold the stock into their shoulder and figure out which hole fit their trigger finger.

Then I took a cheap replacement plastic stock, cut the butt at the right place and reinstall the butt plate. The older brother of this kid was then able to get a respectable score.

Getting a gun that fits this youngster, taking him to the range and figuring out if there is any way on earth this could be safe, would be a key important item. You can load rounds with Trail boss powder to get safe extremely low-power rounds. I have done that for Mosin-Nagant with good results. Mosin-Nagant firing 110 grain bullets that feels like a 22. I still don't know if Iron sights or scope is better for this age kid. I did discover the $16 Walmart fixed 4 power rimfire scope was far easier for kids to figure out then most 3-9 power zooms. Very forgiving on incorrect Eye to scope distance.

You may be amazed at how young kids have trouble figuring all this stuff out.

 

[fotheringill]

I would strongly suggest an inexpensive 22 and some plinking or squirrel shooting. Anything you have listed will knock him on his ass at the very least and possibly injure his shoulder even if held correctly. If he has not had any instruction/training, please do so before tromping around in the woods.

 

[Sam1911]

Anything you have listed will knock him on his ass at the very least and possibly injure his shoulder even if held correctly

Say wut?

Read that list again.

He's got .410s, .30 Carbine, .223, and a .44Mag/Spc. Contender. No way they're injuring the kid or knocking him down.

 

[WestKentucky]

Thanks Sam. The contender is the choice. I wanted a shoulder stock anyway so this a a great reason to go ahead and get it. I just wasn't sure of 44 recoil in a rifle that light. I can load lower pressure rounds in it and get him printing paper. His other uncle and I are taking him to the range with a couple 22s this week when the mudholes dry up again (we need more rain though so hopefully this plan is foiled) he is used to iron sights on the BB gun so I will zero the contender barrel an inch or two high at 50yds so that the lighter loads drop into place. I may even get him involved in the reloading end too under very close supervision...as in he pulls the handle and that's it.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I would recommend a 7MM-08 as a great beginner rifle. It's what I bought for the same purpose and it has worked well. Not much recoil, enough power for deer and fun to shoot.

 

[jakk280rem]

I would be tempted to start him on a crash course in shooting and recoil management. Start with the 44 with specials. Have him get comfortable with it. Then move him into a light mag then into a hunting load. Take it slow. Once he gets over the fear of the noise and recoil he will be fine. Also get one of those recoil pads that he can wear. Like this.

 

[Sam1911]

And remember that you don't need a Magnum .44 load to kill a deer quite thoroughly. The old Kieth Special load will slay them right well without giving him any real recoil to fight with.